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Weapon mods: The list of working/not working : NEW thread!


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kwm1800 #1 Posted 07 April 2016 - 07:56 AM

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Yes, if you have visited this thread before, you will realize something has gone wrong.

 

What happened was that the forum's editor got glitched and deleted EVERYTHING in this post.

 

For the record, I have been maintaining this thread (and previous one) since 3/31.

 

For emergency measure, I will be short on what's working and what's not.

 

Change Log:

 

 

7/24/2016 : Well... Sorry guys, since now I completely lost all interest in this new Moo, I doubt there will be an update for EA6. Well, I have maintained this post for more than 4 months now. I guess it's time to leave.

 

The reason is simple, read my verdict on this game.

 

http://forum.mastero...__fromsearch__1

 

This was written on the beginning of the May, and two months later, none of them are addressed except real racial trait, thus this verdict still stands well. From my quick impression, instead NGD heavily focused on graphics and polish (and the game is already ultra-polished enough.)

Now with most of the time being spent on modding Stellaris, I am afraid I don't have any further time to play Moo to test all of variables.

 

 

6/26/2016 : Fully updated for EA5.

 

6/26/2016 : The forum editor decides to destroy this post. So it was destroyed. I rewrote the whole thing again. I have re-tested all of the weapon mods and special modules. I listed special modules that are problematic only. Rest of them are fully functional.

 

 

1. Weapon mods.

 

Not working : Beam/Cannon Continuous Fire, Missile Fast.

Working : Rest of mods.

Armor Resilience is non-functional.

 

 

2. Ship Special Modules.

 

Will list things that are partially working, cannot be tested or downright not working.

Special Modules that are not present in this list are fully working.

 

Anti-Missile Rocket (in weapon slot instead of special) : Partially working.

-When it is equipped with typical PD, PD overrides AMR, making AMR non-functional.

-Without PD, AMR functions normally.

 

Automated Repair Unit : Partially working.

-Now drones come out and repair the ship.

-They heal not only equipped ship, but also anything in 60 range.

-Problem is that they act like uncontrollable individual units, moved by AI.

-AI is terrible. Most of the time the drones from multiple ships move to a single target, making rest of the ships not being repaired.

-It also seems that enemy PD can kill these drones, and they are not replenished.

 

Heavy Armor : Cannot be tested since Armor resilience is non-functional.

 

Battle Scanner : Non-functional or effects too small.

 

Rangemaster Targeting Unit : Non-functional or effects too small.

 

Achilles Targeting Unit : Cannot be tested... forever unless modding gets bigger for this game.

 

Pulsar : Partially working.

-No longer destroys missiles and stuffs.

-However, the damage itself is quite stronger. Closer to the equipped ships, more damage it brings.

-It can destroy a full-hp cruiser with highest armor (except Orion one) and decent shield in 1 hit.

-However, it does friendly fire, so it is possible to kill its own fleet.

 

Lightning Field : Non-functional

 

Plasma Web : Nearly Non-functional (effects too weak)

 

Cloaking Device : Non-functional

 

Hard Shields : Partially working.

-Damage Reduction still non-functional.

-Nebula protection and shield-piercing protection now work.

 

Scanner Beacon : Cannot be tested since cloaking is not working. A graphical glitch on the beacon when it is employed.

 

Stasis Field : Non-functional

 

Quantum Detonator : Non-functional or effects too small.

 

Blackhole Generator : Partially working.

-Strong pull effect, but no damage.

 

Phasing Cloak : Non-functional


Edited by kwm1800, 24 July 2016 - 07:32 AM.


LeadfootSlim #2 Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:28 AM

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Dang, seems a bit rough if almost nothing is working. Though at least PD and Semi-Guided work... those two strike me as the most challenging to code, but I may be over--(or under)-estimating. It's odd Fast works for Torpedoes and not Missiles, though.

kwm1800 #3 Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:42 AM

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View PostLeadfootSlim, on 07 April 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Dang, seems a bit rough if almost nothing is working. Though at least PD and Semi-Guided work... those two strike me as the most challenging to code, but I may be over--(or under)-estimating. It's odd Fast works for Torpedoes and not Missiles, though.

 

PD and semi-guided has been working for a very, very long time (in fact they worked at very first release of the early access)

From the last patch, torpedo's "Fast" and missile's "MIRV" began to work.

 

There was a small patch today which supposed to solve weapon modifier issues, but from what I am experimenting, nothing has been fixed so far (almost finished cannons. Torpedo and Beam left)


Edited by kwm1800, 07 April 2016 - 09:22 AM.


kwm1800 #4 Posted 07 April 2016 - 09:22 AM

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It seems something is wrong with gauss cannon. I am re-testing the whole cannon stuffs with phasor cannons.

kwm1800 #5 Posted 07 April 2016 - 10:23 AM

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So, all weapons are tested. From the last patch, the devs are able to enable two additional weapons to be functional. You can see them in OP.

 

Unfortunately, the weapon mods take way too much space that they are not really worth it (save for PD)

 

And don't be fooled by torpedo's enveloping mod. Once the shield is gone, the damage is back to normal and it takes 2.5x more space than stock version.



ReallyDeepMan #6 Posted 07 April 2016 - 12:10 PM

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First off THANK YOU SO MUCH for looking into this.

 

The only thing I think I'd want that you haven't covered is if each mod is worth it.  Like for cannon enveloping you say not to bother, but you didn't talk about MIRV or semi-guided in that context.  Given the amount of research you've done I'm very interested in your advice.



Ilserrad #7 Posted 07 April 2016 - 02:27 PM

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For torpedoes I'd say no to semi-guided.

Torpedoes main role, it seems, is a first strike weapon against slow, heavily shielded targets. Mainly for sniping down stationary defenses from outside their range.

 

If you were on the defense against a fleet of mostly titans / doomstars, I'd say a swarm of fast torpedo bombers with semi-guided might be good for long range harassment. But outside that, keep them simple.

The main thing I use Torpedoes for is initiation while on the offense. I load a few torpedoes into a fast destroyer. The Destroyer goes ahead of the fleet and launches a volley at the starbase, then flees to the back line. This lures the enemy ships away from the stationary defenses into the jaws of my missile boats.



LeadfootSlim #8 Posted 07 April 2016 - 03:14 PM

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View PostIlserrad, on 07 April 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

For torpedoes I'd say no to semi-guided.

Torpedoes main role, it seems, is a first strike weapon against slow, heavily shielded targets. Mainly for sniping down stationary defenses from outside their range.

 

If you were on the defense against a fleet of mostly titans / doomstars, I'd say a swarm of fast torpedo bombers with semi-guided might be good for long range harassment. But outside that, keep them simple.

The main thing I use Torpedoes for is initiation while on the offense. I load a few torpedoes into a fast destroyer. The Destroyer goes ahead of the fleet and launches a volley at the starbase, then flees to the back line. This lures the enemy ships away from the stationary defenses into the jaws of my missile boats.

 

Yea, and if Enveloping on torpedoes is functional, that's a way to double down on it as an "opening volley" weapon. Anyway, keep up the good work!



kwm1800 #9 Posted 07 April 2016 - 04:48 PM

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View PostReallyDeepMan, on 07 April 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

First off THANK YOU SO MUCH for looking into this.

 

The only thing I think I'd want that you haven't covered is if each mod is worth it.  Like for cannon enveloping you say not to bother, but you didn't talk about MIRV or semi-guided in that context.  Given the amount of research you've done I'm very interested in your advice.

 

Only worthwhile mods are PD and Semi-Guided for torpedoes. And PD are more of requirement, and the torpedoes are nearly non-functional without SG.

 

 

View PostIlserrad, on 07 April 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

For torpedoes I'd say no to semi-guided.

Torpedoes main role, it seems, is a first strike weapon against slow, heavily shielded targets. Mainly for sniping down stationary defenses from outside their range.

 

If you were on the defense against a fleet of mostly titans / doomstars, I'd say a swarm of fast torpedo bombers with semi-guided might be good for long range harassment. But outside that, keep them simple.

The main thing I use Torpedoes for is initiation while on the offense. I load a few torpedoes into a fast destroyer. The Destroyer goes ahead of the fleet and launches a volley at the starbase, then flees to the back line. This lures the enemy ships away from the stationary defenses into the jaws of my missile boats.

 

We consider several points of this argument and torpedoes....

 

1) Even with "Fast", torpedoes are so slow that only ship you can reliably target is a Doomstar (only one can be made) and MAYBE a titan in close-combat, other than stationary targets.

2) Which greatly limits the usage of torpedoes, since they are only useful in siege of the planetary defenses. It also means that they are basically deadweight in ships-to-ships fight, which leads into planetary bomb situation.

3) With semi-guided, they can reliably target everything til cruisers. smaller ships with mid-endgame space engines can still avoid it due to crazy speed.

4) With Fast And Semi-Guided, they can reliably target everything til destroyers, and frigates moving to a simple direction.

5) Putting weapon mods greatly increase production and ship space requirement. Also, while not shown in the ship design panel, it also greatly increase the money required to buy and upgrade the ship.

 

There actually is one way to use torpedoes in ships-to-ships combat. Equip ships with teleportation device, directly teleport next to the slowest ship, and launch torpedoes in point blank range.

 

Then you realize that anything other than torpedoes are far better suited for such role.



ReallyDeepMan #10 Posted 07 April 2016 - 05:09 PM

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Oh, random question: What's better Anti MIssile Rockets, Point Defense, or a mix?  Also does it change as you get new PD capable weapons?

kwm1800 #11 Posted 07 April 2016 - 05:26 PM

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View PostReallyDeepMan, on 07 April 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Oh, random question: What's better Anti MIssile Rockets, Point Defense, or a mix?  Also does it change as you get new PD capable weapons?

 

There is a huge problem with the interaction with AMR and PD. If you install AMR, your PD suddenly does not work anymore. It is because AMR is guaranteed 100% hit, so the game system tries to use AMR only.

 

Well...

 

AMR :

Pros

1) 100% guaranteed hit and destroy pretty much any missiles in one hit.

Cons

1) Really small range (I believe the range is about 10 or even smaller) that they actually cannot fire all available AMR before swarm of missiles hit the ship.

 

PD :

Pros

1) Incredible range (same as the stock weapon range, which is 40)

Cons

1) low-tier technology weapon have harder time destroying high-tier technology missiles.

2) Not exactly 100% guaranteed hit.

 

....However, PD are actually super accurate (more like 90% to hit), and normally your cannon tech matches with missile tech too.

Low range of AMR is really a fatal flaw. It's unfortunately not worth it. If AMR would have worked in conjunction with PD, it would have be much better, but...



Mathias_Zealot #12 Posted 08 April 2016 - 01:40 AM

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They really should work together: PD for screening other ships and ranged missile defense; AMRs for last line of defense against missiles that breached the PD.
EA4 Weapon Data (5-27-16)

kwm1800 #13 Posted 10 April 2016 - 07:20 AM

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View PostMathias_Zealot, on 08 April 2016 - 01:40 AM, said:

They really should work together: PD for screening other ships and ranged missile defense; AMRs for last line of defense against missiles that breached the PD.

 

Yes, they should. I think it is more of a bug rather than intentional feature.


Edited by kwm1800, 10 April 2016 - 07:31 AM.


kwm1800 #14 Posted 12 April 2016 - 06:04 PM

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The list has been updated with far more numbers to enjoy.

Subtactrics #15 Posted 13 April 2016 - 11:41 PM

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bump!  Fantastic work kwm.

Not sure if upvoting matters but we need to +1 stuff like this!



hsinyuhcan #16 Posted 17 April 2016 - 02:36 AM

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I think beam weapons' Enveloping is working. There are several reasons make it unobvious:

1. Beam weapons' damage greatly decreases as firing distance increases.

2. When fire, cannon weapon makes one-time high damage, but beam weapon makes multi-time (6~10 procs) low damage, each time incoming damage will be reduced by absorption before be multiply by Enveloping. If absorption = 3, a 8-procs beam weapon's damage will be reduced by 24.

* Some cannon are shield penetration that not trigger shield and Enveloping.

 

Cannon weapons' Continuous Fire should be working, but beam weapons' Continuous Fire is not working due to bug.

EDIT: I forgot that weapon slot's accuracy is not calculated due to another bug, cannon's Continuous Fire is not working.

 

ECCM is not working due to ECM's bug.

 

All modifies about directly changing accuracy, range, damage or fire-rate are not working. That's why PD has full damage, full range, no accuracy bonus and no fire rate bonus but can shoot down missiles. Enveloping, Continuous Fire and MIRV are not directly changing those attribute, so they are working (excluding Continuous Fire).

 

Missiles' Fast should be working, at least the code seems right.

EDIT: There a few difference between missiles and torpedoes's code, I'll test it.

 

Heavy Armor is not working due to bug.


Edited by hsinyuhcan, 17 April 2016 - 01:24 PM.


sansloi #17 Posted 25 April 2016 - 08:54 PM

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So are there any updates to this with EA3, or is everything working (or not) the same as EA2?

icthulu #18 Posted 25 April 2016 - 09:37 PM

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Curious, do you find any difference between having multiple banks of the same weapon, or putting them all into the same open slot? I wonder if each bank chooses it's own target, or if the AI always fires all weapons at one target.

Ilserrad #19 Posted 25 April 2016 - 10:02 PM

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The game will empty an entire bank at one target per salvo.

Say you have a battleship with 40 phasors vs. a fleet of 20 torpedo frigates.

If those 40 phasors are in one bank, the Battleship will fire all 40 at one frigate per shot.

If those 40 phasors are in four banks of 10, the battleship will fire 10 at one frigate, note that the frigate is completely utterly dead, and fire the next 10 at another frigate.



icthulu #20 Posted 25 April 2016 - 11:51 PM

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That is a hugely important thing! Thank you. This needs to be in every guide.




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