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A basic guide to tatical combat

Tatical Combat Guide How to smash frigate swarms No Missiles

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ApolloArtemis #21 Posted 13 May 2016 - 09:26 PM

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If you get a chance to keep this updated with each EA that'd be amazing! :)

Stelar_7 #22 Posted 13 May 2016 - 11:00 PM

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View PostElPozoleOlmeca, on 13 May 2016 - 09:26 PM, said:

got a request to pin this, so pinned. 

 

Wow, thanks.

Stelar_7 #23 Posted 13 May 2016 - 11:02 PM

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View PostElPozoleOlmeca, on 13 May 2016 - 09:26 PM, said:

If you get a chance to keep this updated with each EA that'd be amazing! :)

 

Sure,

 

I can put something up about the Nebulae and asteroids. I didn't cover them before. I don't see that the interface has changed much but I'll look.



fourteenfour #24 Posted 14 May 2016 - 04:45 PM

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While you did nice work documenting the shit show that is tactical combat I can put all my advice into one word.

 

DON'T


Wargaming Labs, taking the money and running. Abandons MOO CTS after their contract development staff could not deliver without ever one word to players.

Stelar_7 #25 Posted 02 June 2016 - 06:24 AM

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Do, tactical combat. It's fun and pretty and gives you a much better handle on the results of your fights. The auto resolve is getting better, but it makes terrible use of the assets you hand it.

 

Updates to the guide on Page 1 post 2.



voidstalker_woe #26 Posted 03 June 2016 - 12:36 AM

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You have a good tactical tutorial, and wanted to say thanks! I did have a couple observations though.

1) In EA3, how were you NOT able to select individual ships? I play the win version, and whenever I want an individual ship I use the click+hold & drag method, not the click on ship method.

2) In your tutorial, you make good posts for mid and later games. Do you plan, or can you be talked into, doing some startup/early game strategies? After all, every game will have the first 100 turns or so before it gets to the good stuff.

3) Have you any interest in doing a dedicated missile/AMR/Bomb strategy? For the beginning players, especially in the very early game, one of the most basic and easily mastered strategies is to take all missiles, get to and keep at, max missile range, and then just force the enemy into a 'Stern Chase', postponing/preventing them from using any and all non-missiles armaments they carry, and giving their own ships a good force multiplier.  This has an advantage over any other strategy in that, the player doesn't have to start off learning anything more than the longest ranged weapons systems, their counter measures, and how to maneuver to keep an enemy force at bay.
Further more, I believe that we must start building a better MoO5 now, for only by doing so can we get tomorrow's game, today!

Stelar_7 #27 Posted 03 June 2016 - 05:14 AM

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View Postvoidstalker_woe, on 03 June 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

You have a good tactical tutorial, and wanted to say thanks! I did have a couple observations though.

1) In EA3, how were you NOT able to select individual ships? I play the win version, and whenever I want an individual ship I use the click+hold & drag method, not the click on ship method.

2) In your tutorial, you make good posts for mid and later games. Do you plan, or can you be talked into, doing some startup/early game strategies? After all, every game will have the first 100 turns or so before it gets to the good stuff.

3) Have you any interest in doing a dedicated missile/AMR/Bomb strategy? For the beginning players, especially in the very early game, one of the most basic and easily mastered strategies is to take all missiles, get to and keep at, max missile range, and then just force the enemy into a 'Stern Chase', postponing/preventing them from using any and all non-missiles armaments they carry, and giving their own ships a good force multiplier.  This has an advantage over any other strategy in that, the player doesn't have to start off learning anything more than the longest ranged weapons systems, their counter measures, and how to maneuver to keep an enemy force at bay.

 

 
​Thanks,
 
I can probably put up something on early game missile ships. Are you wanting to see how I build ships for combat? I could throw that together pretty quick I suppose.
 
I select individual ships by dragging a selection window over just one ship. In EA2 and now again in EA4 that selects a single ship and I can give it orders only it will obey. In EA3 I could not get a selection to be less than the whole squadron.
 
I generally use missiles early game. The first thing I do in a game is convert my starting frigate to missiles and a single bomb. Played tatically it can prevail against any pirate fleet, though the pirate destroyers can be a challenge.


voidstalker_woe #28 Posted 03 June 2016 - 03:57 PM

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View PostStelar_7, on 03 June 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

I select individual ships by dragging a selection window over just one ship. In EA2 and now again in EA4 that selects a single ship and I can give it orders only it will obey. In EA3 I could not get a selection to be less than the whole squadron.

Hmmm.  I had this same issue, but I would select as above, then assign the ship to a hotkey, then give an order, and it would allow individual control at that point.  I did this throughout EA3, and while it was a pain to do (Not to mention the misleading group select that would start up when I went through this process) it worked for me with the windows version on my 7 pro computer.  Not sure that that makes a difference or not, but you never know.

 

A series of screen shots, covering the movement to contact (Max missile engagement range), and then the fighting with-drawl, while being careful to attempt to stay beyond the beam weapons max range, either totally or for as long as possible, until the enemy is destroyed, is what I am really looking for, with emphasis on the need to make the 'turn away' maneuver just PRIOR to actually entering missile range, so that the enemy does not get to use your turning time to close the range so his beam weapons can be brought to bear, but rather your turning time allows the enemy to close to maximum missile range only, thus setting up the battle properly.

 

I had a few battles when I first started playing, where I made the mistake of not turning away prior to entering max missile range, and suffered damage to, and even destruction of, my own ships as a result.  I would have all players have the 'how to' of avoiding this made plain, before they get turned off by the flaws of the tactical combat system we currently have in CTS.

 

I used to do the same, but soon grew tired of repeatedly having to repeat-bomb the pirate base because I kept 'missing' with a one bomb armed FG, and so now use 2 bombs.  It is a trade off between killing ships a bit faster, or having to spend several turns wiping out those pesky pirate bases.  Having two bombs most surly does not prevent the need to re-bomb, but it does indeed cut down on such markedly.  It also makes it possible to more easily 'adjust' boarders with my AI opponents on recently colonized planets, lol. 


Further more, I believe that we must start building a better MoO5 now, for only by doing so can we get tomorrow's game, today!

Stelar_7 #29 Posted 08 June 2016 - 11:28 PM

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Oohhh, the red range things have changed. I will be updating this once I get a little more combat play testing in to be sure I know what both sliders do.

 

For sure, so far, the Right range slider sets how close your ship will try to get, but the weapons will still fire at their max range. So this one should be set less than full for ships using guns.

 

I'm not sure what the left slider does now, I know I have seen it fail to shoot in the past, but that was EA3. This may now be a very, very handy tool.



fourteenfour #30 Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:33 PM

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With multiplayer tactical this would so easy to figure out what is working and not working.
Wargaming Labs, taking the money and running. Abandons MOO CTS after their contract development staff could not deliver without ever one word to players.

Stelar_7 #31 Posted 17 June 2016 - 06:08 AM

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Updated the posts, to clear up some stuff that changed and add the range info.

Stelar_7 #32 Posted 22 July 2016 - 08:57 AM

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Very good news,

 

EA6 now lets us quickly and easily change the preset groups.

 

Select ships, and issue a movement order, and boom, they become one group. So if you have 2 groups of 2 you can make 1 of 4 and get into box formation. The spacing on cluster formation also seems better, but I need to test with larger ships to be sure.



Prrsha #33 Posted 24 July 2016 - 11:17 PM

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The range slider seems to have been vastly changed.  My ships are now jousting the enemy instead of firing and backing up while shooting.  This leads them to get shot in the rear as they flee if I have them on long range.  If they are on close range, they just play bumper cars with the enemy and quickly get smashed apart.  Can you explain how the new range slider works and what the new doughnut means?

Stelar_7 #34 Posted 26 July 2016 - 07:45 AM

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View PostPrrsha, on 24 July 2016 - 11:17 PM, said:

The range slider seems to have been vastly changed.  My ships are now jousting the enemy instead of firing and backing up while shooting.  This leads them to get shot in the rear as they flee if I have them on long range.  If they are on close range, they just play bumper cars with the enemy and quickly get smashed apart.  Can you explain how the new range slider works and what the new doughnut means?

 

​I haven't seen the behavior that you described. I do see that there is now a set minimum distance that the two handles can be apart. The rim of the doughnut can only get so narrow. If you are working a kiting strategy you should turn your ships manually just before you get into range. That is pretty optimal early game using missiles.

 

Later game I prefer to use direct fire and get up close. I leave the combat AI on, but I'm constantly adjusting the position or target of my ships manually.



Archont4000 #35 Posted 28 July 2016 - 12:19 AM

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View PostStelar_7, on 26 July 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

 

If you are working a kiting strategy you should turn your ships manually just before you get into range.

 

Probably this ^

I have same problem with ships charging forward. I'll try rotating them manually (though before they were able to do it automatically)

 



EmperorFredd #36 Posted 02 September 2016 - 02:31 AM

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How much of this is still valid with the release version?  It looks like an amazingly impressive piece of work, but posted back in February, I don't want to rely on it if many changes have been made to the combat system.  I'm looking for information.  Thank you.

Spud_Dastardly #37 Posted 02 September 2016 - 05:02 AM

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The second post from April is mostly still valid.  The UI has changed slightly, stuff has been rebalanced, and the admiral AI has been improved.  The basics are still the same.

Get 5X - The Ultimate Balance Mod on Steam or on Nexus Mods!

 





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