16 replies to this topic

[mikeva1]

I have a tendency to use the tactical combat setting in all of my MOO2 games. Sometimes I let the game handle the combat for me and intervene when I see an opportunity the AI did not see.

Someone else has said that only 10% of all MOO2 players use tactical combat so I decided to  start this poll to get a feel for how many people on this forum actually used tactical combat.

[Omega_Weapon]

I used the hands on control almost 100% of the time. The way that different strategies had such an huge impact on whether you would win or lose the battle (even if the enemy was more advanced or outnumbered you), was one of the best parts of the game. I really miss it. The only times I used the auto resolve was in multiplayer and if the fleets were extra large (mainly because the other player complained it would take too long).

[Lucian667]

Me too, I loved tactical combat in MOO 2 and used it all the time. That 10% quote came from Chris Keeling, "Director of Project vision" at WG and is widely regarded by many MOO fans as a hilariously transparent bold-faced lie, crafted for the sole purpose of PR spin.

[M002mod]

EmP64213, on 14 May 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

Just to be clear does the poll ask about turning tactical combat on or off when starting the game or about playing or ignoring tactical combat with tactical turned on at the start?

 

I played only once with tactical off. I was introducing a friend to MoO 2 and wanted to gradually teach him game mechanics. The friend had a lot fun but I was unpleasantly surprised how that one little check box have changed the game. I thought it would simply autoresolve all battles. It turned out ship design was disabled and game designed ships for you when you get new technology. Designs were kind of like what AI creates when tactical is on but didn't respect size restrictions. At some point I even saw designs with zero combat speed because the ship was stuffed so much beyond the limit. And there was no miniaturization with hyper advanced techs, weapon count didn't change nor did combat speed. Probably that's why AI never seems to research hyper advanced levels and dumps all scientist to ship production after researching all regular tech.

'strategic combat' mode is plagued by some visual bugs for detailed ship info, that gives the player wrong impression of the layout of the ships.

ship design follows certain fixed rules in the strategic mode and we have figured out much of the mechanics last year.

documentation about it was almost non-existent prior.

you can read about it here if interested;

http://www.spheriumnorth.com/orion-forum/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33498

 

(the site can be slow at times)

Edited by M002mod, 14 May 2016 - 09:36 PM.

[mikeva1]

EmP64213, on 14 May 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Just to be clear does the poll ask about turning tactical combat on or off when starting the game or about playing or ignoring tactical combat with tactical turned on at the start?

 

Good question - I think I will have to add more answers for the poll.

[Mikko_M]

Lucian667, on 14 May 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Me too, I loved tactical combat in MOO 2 and used it all the time. That 10% quote came from Chris Keeling, "Director of Project vision" at WG and is widely regarded by many MOO fans as a hilariously transparent bold-faced lie, crafted for the sole purpose of PR spin.

 

Add me to the list of tactical combat heavy users as well. ​And what comes to that now legendary comment, I personally found (and still find) it really scary that the director of project vision for this game ​could say something as ridiculous as that in one of his very first interviews. As Darth Vader probably would put it "I found his lack of vision disturbing".

Edited by Mikko_M, 15 May 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[JosEPh_II]

Always used Tactical. Only once tried without it. Even when I taught my 4 children how to play I taught them to start with tactical. Those 4 now range from 39 to 28 and they also still only used Tactical. The oldest's 3 children also only play Tactical.

 

So there are 8 ppl from 1 family that all use tactical.

 

JosEPh

[Mikko_M]

JosEPh_II, on 15 May 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Always used Tactical. Only once tried without it. Even when I taught my 4 children how to play I taught them to start with tactical. Those 4 now range from 39 to 28 and they also still only used Tactical. The oldest's 3 children also only play Tactical.

 

So there are 8 ppl from 1 family that all use tactical.

 

JosEPh

 

​So no Chris Kee... ,I mean black sheeps, of course, in the family then?

[Anguille_1]

I play all the battles in MOO2 (and MOO1).

 

- Imho, it's the best aspect in the game. Looks great and plays great and usually there's a manageable amount of ships.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Mikko_M, on 15 May 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

 

​So no Chris Kee... ,I mean black sheeps, of course, in the family then?

 

None unless you are of course counting me too.

 

And to reiterate, I play all the battles in All of the 4 MoO games. And those players that could not stand the late game battles in MoO2 (ie Oooo too much micromanagement) I just shake my head. That was the Game's culmination point for pities sake and I wanted it Hands On Always.

 

Same for MoO and MoO3. In III in 1 game alone I logged over 6,000 space battles. Mid to end game I was doing 10-25 Space battles per turn and 3-8 Ground invasions as well.

 

Tactical combat is the pinnacle of the MoO Series impho. The Strategy is getting there and being able to make your stand.

 

JosEPh

Edited by JosEPh_II, 18 May 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[VonRansak]

It was kinda a no-brainer.  It was turn based.  When things are turn based they tend to resemble a chess match, or checkers   Trying Total War style RTS is interesting, and immersive.  But no way I could control the ships like the AI does (currently not even possible, AI seems to have independent ship control).  

 

After thinking about it for some time, it does impact the gameplay significantly and puts that much more responsibility on the dev to have the AI right.   Seems it was a core gameplay decision and we won't see turn based.  Currently battles, while pretty, are pretty stale.  How you capture that with Total War style RTS, of which TW may never make one b/c spaceships don't fight in formations the same way as footsoldiers.

 

So how you capture the tactical challenge that it was, with the tools you are using today???

 

Hehe.  Forgot what subforum I was in

Edited by VonRansak, 05 June 2016 - 10:03 AM.

[sjwt]

Not if I felt it was goign to be a clear victory with no losses, but if I felt that the auto system would incur losses I would take control, and of course when I was on the back foot retreating and ever kill counted so I manged it manually then too.  

 

A few late game battles at the point where I was over running the galaxy I would also jsut hit auto where one unit lossed was relay nothing. 

[Laegad]

I always used tactical combat in MMO2.

- 1 - In order to minimize loss (damaged ship can warp away)

- 2 - In order to preserve my fleet leader (by default, AI don't care to keep leaders alive, so if you auto your combats, you could quickly lose them)

- 3 - In order to preserve small missile-launcher : They launch their missiles and then warp out.

        Remember (or learn it) : In MMO2, missiles were in limited number for each fight, so when you have launched your number of missiles, you have not any more to finish the fight

          => [IDEA] - Missiles are strong in this new version of MMO

                What about limiting their number per fight ?

 

In this new version of MMO (EA4), only the reason - 1 - stay valid, so tactical combat is not mandatory as it was in MMO2.

 

 

Edited by Laegad, 07 June 2016 - 06:30 PM.

[totensburntcorpse]

I found the stellar converter weapon ( BFG ) was best used in hands on tactical combat use.  The AI was just too stupid to use the tactics right.

[diehardtwinsfan]

always.  Thought it was cheapened by not doing real time, but I loved it.

[voidstalker_woe]

I also used Tactical in all but one game, and really didn't care for not even being able to design my ships.

 

I don't miss MoO2's tactical space combat, as I have given up on CTS and just returned to playing it's far better designed franchise partner, and still champion, Master of Orion II.

 

I know I won't be buying anything further in this franchise, if the idiots that made CTS have anything to do with it, lol.

[GhostTX1]

totensburntcorpse, on 07 June 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

I found the stellar converter weapon ( BFG ) was best used in hands on tactical combat use.  The AI was just too stupid to use the tactics right.

 

When I played MOO2, AI was horrible using your ships correctly. One of my favorites was making a ship with no armor or shields and would fit it with a teleporter and as much rear facing beams as it could. First move would be to teleport it behind the enemy ships and blast them one by one. Computer would have to waste cycles to turn or would advance to get blasted from the rear again.

 

The AI is NOT good at using specialty designed ships or weapons. It just knows to charge and attack.