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What to do with the Mrrshan?


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Poll: How should Mrrshan be? (45 members have cast votes)

How should Mrrshan be?

  1. Leave them as they are (Uber Planet, 50% Ground Combat, Barracks) (1 vote [2.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.00%

  2. Give them Beam Attack (Uber Planet, 50% Beam Attack) (28 votes [56.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.00%

  3. Give them better Ships/Elite Crews (Uber Planet, +25% Beam Attack, +25% Beam Defense) (16 votes [32.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.00%

  4. Other (Specify in Comment) (5 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

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Lemonymous #21 Posted 14 July 2016 - 11:33 PM

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View PostPrrsha, on 14 July 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

Terrans are the new Mrrshan it seems.  Why not reverse the two racial traits?  I don't know if they will do that however, as Terrans are a bonus in the presales.

Who bought it for the Terran though? I certainly did not. A pre-purchase only race almost made me not buy it at all.

 

Make Mrrshan Mrrshan, and let Terran have something else.


Edited by Lemonymous, 14 July 2016 - 11:33 PM.


Arent11 #22 Posted 15 July 2016 - 08:11 AM

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View PostLemonymous, on 14 July 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

Who bought it for the Terran though? I certainly did not. A pre-purchase only race almost made me not buy it at all.

 

Make Mrrshan Mrrshan, and let Terran have something else.

 

In fact, the major problem is that the Terrans right now are a bit boring. If the Mrrshan were the pre-purchase race, I would buy it. If it were the Silicoid, or the Psilon. These races are cool.

 

The Terrans simply don't *feel* badass, as they apparently should. They are just warmongers. They are not underhanded, sneaky spies like the Darlok, they are not prey-hunting, battle loving Mrrshan. They are not alien Silicoid. They are just... I don't know. They need some defining characteristics. Something that sets them apart from the crowd.

 

 



Prrsha #23 Posted 16 July 2016 - 02:48 AM

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I still haven't heard any lore on why the Terrans exist, and how they can exist side by side with the Humans.  They are the same race and from the same homeworld, so how did they come into existence when you play the game at pre-warp?  They just seem like a shoddy attempt to sell the collectors edition without adding a major race with distinct abilities that differ from any classic Moo1 or 2 race.  Instead they just stole the stats of the Mrrshan and called it a day despite the Mrrshan lore on their own web page say they are the best gunners.


 

I ask this question to the developers.  It says that your concept for Mrrshan in this game revolves around them being the best gunners in the galaxy.  If this is the case, then how do the Terrans have a higher beam accuracy then the Mrrshan which have none at all?  I'd love to see an answer to this but so far, I have yet to see you touch upon it, only dance around this really simple fact.  You are contradicting your own arguments about your "vision" for the Mrrshan.  Can you please explain, or at the very least get someone to explain this to us?  I grow tired of this evasion of the subject when a simple check with the staff could resolve the question and grumbling in the forums in an instant.  Are they going to have the best beam attack or not?  I have around 30 days before I have to go off and explain this game to someone and I have been delaying this because your vision is going off into tangents.  I really have no idea what to recommend.  Is this game in the spirit and concept of Master of Orion at heart, a total reboot, or something in-between.  If the races are different their original counterparts, then this is really newsworthy.  I really want (for your part) to get your vision of this correct.



Lemonymous #24 Posted 16 July 2016 - 04:37 AM

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View PostArent11, on 15 July 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

 

(...) If the Mrrshan were the pre-purchase race, I would buy it. If it were the Silicoid, or the Psilon. These races are cool.

 

(...)

If any of the main races were pre-purchase only, that would have been just awful. Pre-purchase bonuses are the worst way of marketing.

 

@Prrsha: I really hope you get your kitty gunnery skills eventually.



Prrsha #25 Posted 20 July 2016 - 12:16 AM

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I was told that the creators of this MOO spoke with the creators of the original Master of Orion.  They learned a lot but maybe also much was lost in translation.  I was told they described each race to them (Mrrshan included) and also spoke to them about turn based combat.  I guess some things were forgotten or ignored.  It would be interesting to his Barcia's comment on the current state of the game.  If anything, Wargames need to have a sit down with him since they are rewinding the game in some ways back to square one.

fourteenfour #26 Posted 21 July 2016 - 12:48 PM

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View PostArent11, on 15 July 2016 - 03:11 AM, said:

 

In fact, the major problem is that the Terrans right now are a bit boring. If the Mrrshan were the pre-purchase race, I would buy it. If it were the Silicoid, or the Psilon. These races are cool.

 

The Terrans simply don't *feel* badass, as they apparently should. They are just warmongers. They are not underhanded, sneaky spies like the Darlok, they are not prey-hunting, battle loving Mrrshan. They are not alien Silicoid. They are just... I don't know. They need some defining characteristics. Something that sets them apart from the crowd.

 

 

 

Terrans are boring because they are just a cut and paste travesty. WG didn't even expend the time and energy to give them unique ships, instead they just palette shifted them. Worse their story is straight silly rip off of either Wrath of Khan, The Terran Empire of TOS where we had Spock with a beard, or Nietzscheans from Andromeda. They should have been led by a woman with a male science advisor, they should have been the Elerians or similar. (actually I would not mind them as Andromeda's Nietzscheans)
Wargaming Labs, taking the money and running. Abandons MOO CTS after their contract development staff could not deliver without ever one word to players.

RuNeZz #27 Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:03 PM

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View Postfourteenfour, on 21 July 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

 

Terrans are boring because they are just a cut and paste travesty. WG didn't even expend the time and energy to give them unique ships, instead they just palette shifted them. Worse their story is straight silly rip off of either Wrath of Khan, The Terran Empire of TOS where we had Spock with a beard, or Nietzscheans from Andromeda. They should have been led by a woman with a male science advisor, they should have been the Elerians or similar. (actually I would not mind them as Andromeda's Nietzscheans)

 

I would have mostly expected the Terrans to be the next Moo3 harvester race. I can't believe MrrShan have lost all those awesome war stats. I like ground combat but the real fight is in space. Now we have two ground combat races so now we can count two races out when it comes to conquering MrrShan and Bulrathi and hardly worry about Darloks with spying. They were to me the most interesting races, counting out Trilarians, Gnolams, Elerians and Gaseous races (Moo3), even the Evons ( Moo3 Elerians ) were cool.

 

Anyways, at least the Psilons aren't broken down and reset.

 

Moo CTS still is a good game but there are few things still missing. It is still alpha though.


Edited by RuNeZz, 21 July 2016 - 04:08 PM.


Arent11 #28 Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:28 PM

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View Postfourteenfour, on 21 July 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

 

Terrans are boring because they are just a cut and paste travesty. WG didn't even expend the time and energy to give them unique ships, instead they just palette shifted them. Worse their story is straight silly rip off of either Wrath of Khan, The Terran Empire of TOS where we had Spock with a beard, or Nietzscheans from Andromeda. They should have been led by a woman with a male science advisor, they should have been the Elerians or similar. (actually I would not mind them as Andromeda's Nietzscheans)

 

Then let's think about what traits would make the Terrans *feel* unique and badass. How about a combination of war & science with huge internal conflicts or diplomacy mali? Something like ~slightly better ships, slightly faster research (not as good as psilons) & diplomacy disadvantages & morale disadvantages? Something like ~few ships, but high tech weapons?

 

 



RuNeZz #29 Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:46 PM

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Terran:

 

-Less Growth

-More Production

-More Research

-Repulsive (Arrogant superior Attitude)

-Maybe Faster Ships in combat/ Or militarist / some Sort of tech advantage

-More Beam Defense +50

 

NOT COUNTED just an example

Leave War To the MrrShan.

 

PLS MAKE THEIR SHIPS MORE BADASS NOT JUST THE SAME SKIN

 

Something like that. :):)


Edited by RuNeZz, 22 July 2016 - 02:14 AM.


Andruski #30 Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:43 PM

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Other: Make them quit with the silly cat references. 

Arent11 #31 Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:04 AM

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View PostRuNeZz, on 21 July 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Terran:

 

-Less Growth

-More Production

-More Research

-Repulsive (Arrogant superior Attitude)

-Maybe Faster Ships in combat/ Or militarist / some Sort of tech advantage

-More Beam Defense +50

 

NOT COUNTED just an example

Leave War To the MrrShan.

 

PLS MAKE THEIR SHIPS MORE BADASS NOT JUST THE SAME SKIN

 

Something like that. :):)

 

That's a lot of advantages. Production, research and better ships?

 

 

 

 

 



Prrsha #32 Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:15 AM

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A new patch update and still no change to the Mrrshan.


 

To the developers:  Do you have any plans to change the Mrrshan in the future to bring them more in line with the gunners they were in previous games?



RuNeZz #33 Posted 22 July 2016 - 03:59 PM

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View PostRuNeZz, on 21 July 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Terran:

 

-Less Growth

-More Production

-More Research

-Repulsive (Arrogant superior Attitude)

-Maybe Faster Ships in combat/ Or militarist / some Sort of tech advantage

-More Beam Defense +50

 

NOT COUNTED just an example

Leave War To the MrrShan.

 

PLS MAKE THEIR SHIPS MORE BADASS NOT JUST THE SAME SKIN

 

Something like that. :):)

 

View PostArent11, on 22 July 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

 

That's a lot of advantages. Production, research and better ships?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well if devs actually want the terrans to be intimidating like expected thats what will scare players. 

And i assure you is possible.

 

- -50 Growth (cost +7)

- +25 Research (cost -3)

- +25 Production ( cost -3)

- +50 Beam Defense ( cost -4 )

----7 points left----

- High G ( cost -5)

- Rich Homeworld (cost -2)

 

Now here is a sparkling example of how the Terrans can be built. You could even lower the growth penalty and change up  the high g and Rich homeworld  trait of the Terran race.


Edited by RuNeZz, 22 July 2016 - 04:15 PM.


RuNeZz #34 Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:12 PM

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MrrShans

Just an example

 

- -25% Food 

- -25% credit ( small pirate organisations, lost to military )

- +50 Beam Attack

- +25 Beam Defense

- -20% ship cost

- Artifact world. 

 

I think adding +10% command points is possible

 

Alright there you have it


Edited by RuNeZz, 22 July 2016 - 04:15 PM.


Arent11 #35 Posted 22 July 2016 - 05:45 PM

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View PostRuNeZz, on 22 July 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

Well if devs actually want the terrans to be intimidating like expected thats what will scare players. 

And i assure you is possible.

 

- -50 Growth (cost +7)

- +25 Research (cost -3)

- +25 Production ( cost -3)

- +50 Beam Defense ( cost -4 )

----7 points left----

- High G ( cost -5)

- Rich Homeworld (cost -2)

 

Now here is a sparkling example of how the Terrans can be built. You could even lower the growth penalty and change up  the high g and Rich homeworld  trait of the Terran race.

 

Sounds good. The only objection would be that I can't connect the lore of the Terrans to High G world. I also would prefer the diplomacy disadvantage. So, I would (1) lower the growth penalty (2) add a small diplomacy penalty & (3) remove the high g trait. Maybe also change +50% beam defense to +25%/+25% beam attack/defense (Since 50% beam defense is already "taken" by Alkari, the best pilots in the galaxy ;) )

 

View PostRuNeZz, on 22 July 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

MrrShans

Just an example

 

- -25% Food 

- -25% credit ( small pirate organisations, lost to military )

- +50 Beam Attack

- +25 Beam Defense

- -20% ship cost

- Artifact world. 

 

I think adding +10% command points is possible

 

 

I can't connect a food penalty to the lore, the credits penalty might be ok, you could argue that the Mrrshan have a fractionated feudal government.

 

 



Prrsha #36 Posted 23 July 2016 - 02:29 AM

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Less food means less population growth and this would hit the Mrrshan hard given their starting planet is not Terran.


 

In the custom race screen, I design Mrrshan with the following stats:


 

Grassland Biome

+50% beam offense

-20 ship cost


 

The formula works fine, now if only the devs would add something similar, fighting against the Mrrshan would be much more of a challenge.  I would love to see them adjusted to the following:


 

ALKARI

Homeworld Special: Artifacts

Natural Pilots: Beam Defense +50%, Ship Improvements Travel & Combat speed bonus, Remove Beam Attack +25% from description

Militarists-REPLACED TRAITS-  +10% Ground Combat, +10% command points, +10% Security

Homeworld Size: Large-REMOVED-

Diplomacy: Worsen Disposition with Mrrshan  -PROPOSED  TRAIT-

 

BULRATHI

Ecologists: Starting tech Biology, Pollution reduction 25%.

Homeworld Size: Large

Homeworld Minerals: Rich -REMOVED-

Gravity Tolerance: High Gravity (-25% in Production, Food & Ground Combat in Low-G, +25% Ground Combat in High-G)

Ground Combat Rating: +50%

 

DARLOK

Diplomats: Starting Tech Government, Morale +10% -REMOVED-

Stealthy: Ship Improvement Stealth, Mission Risk -20%

Shapeshifters: Security +10%, Assimilation Power -25%

Repulsive: Worsen Negotiations & Disposition -PROPOSED TRAIT-

 

HUMAN

Diplomats: Starting Tech Government, Morale +10% -REMOVED-

CharismaticImproved Negotiations & Disposition (This should be called Diplomats IMHO)

Traders: Trade treaties & trade goods bonus

Democratic: -10% Security, -10% Morale, +50% Assimilation Power, +20% Research speed -PROPOSED NEW TRAIT-

 

KLACKON

Industrialists: Starting tech physics. Production from population +25% +50% 

Subterranean: Homeworld type Desert, Uber Planet Cavernous, ADDED TRAIT +20% more population cap in Desert/Cavernous, -20% Deaths from Bombardment in Uber Cavernous.

Uncreative: Technology Uncreative, Research from population -25%

Population Growth: +25% -NEW TRAIT-

Food from population-50%  +25%.

 

MEKLAR

Cybernetic: Food from population -50%, Production from population -25%, Ship Improvement Auto Repair.

Population Growth: -25%  -NEW TRAIT-

Industrialists: Starting tech physics. Production from population +25% +50% 

 

MRRSHAN

Militarists-REPLACE TRAITS WITH- +10% Ground Combat, +10% command points, +10% Security

Plains Dweller: Homeworld Type Arid, Uber Planet Grassland  ADDED TRAIT +10% Ground Combat Rating in Arid/Grassland planets.

Warlord-REPLACE TRAITS WITH+50% Beam Attack, +10% Command Points 

Diplomacy: Worsen Disposition with Alkari  -NEW TRAIT-

 

PSILON

Technologist: Starting Tech Physics, replace homeworld special Artifacts with Starting Tech Government.

Homeworld Size: Small

Homeworld Special: Artifacts -NEW TRAIT-

Creative: Technology Creative, +25% Research from population

Gravity Tolerance: Low Gravity  (-25% Ground Combat in Normal-G, -50% in Food, Production & Ground Combat in High-G)

Security: -20%

 

SAKKRA

Expansionist: Replace Starting Tech Engineering with Ship Cost -20%, Starting Tech Biology.

Jungle Creature: Homeworld Swamp, Uber Planet Jungle, ADDED TRAIT +20% Ground Combat Rating in Swamp/Jungle

Uncreative: Technology Uncreative, Research from population -25%  -REMOVED-

Research from Population: -25% -NEW TRAIT-

Population Growth: +25%+50%

Beam Attack: -25% -NEW TRAIT-

Beam Defense: -25% -NEW TRAIT-

 

SILICOIDS

Lithovore: Food Consumption None (Growth dependant on Mineral Richness of planet)

Tolerant:  -REPLACE TRAIT WITHPollution Immunity

Homeworld Size: Huge

Repulsive: Worsen Negotiations & Disposition

Lava Breather: Homeworld Volcanic, Uber Planet Inferno,  ADDED TRAIT +10% Population Growth in Volcanic, +20% Population Growth in Inferno.


 Credit goes to Vahouth for the above racial suggestions.                      



Prrsha #37 Posted 23 July 2016 - 02:41 AM

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View PostRuNeZz, on 22 July 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

MrrShans

Just an example

 

- -25% Food

- -25% credit ( small pirate organisations, lost to military )

- +50 Beam Attack

- +25 Beam Defense

- -20% ship cost

- Artifact world.

 

I think adding +10% command points is possible

 

Alright there you have it

 

Also, Mrrshans have nothing to do with Pirates.  If that was the case why do pirates have FTL drives before Mrrshans themselves in pre-warp.  It makes no sense.

As I said above with a Food hit like that and Credit hit as well, you would render them a useless race.  They would be so hampered by their starting world in respect to food... and the credit penalty would mess with the AI so bad that the AI could never amass building fast enough.  In addition, upgrading their fleets would be so difficult that they would have to just rebuild the entire fleet by scratch every time they needed an upgrade.  That would negate the -20% ship cost.  Plus both traits go against lore.  They were never Feudal government in Moo2 or 1.



RuNeZz #38 Posted 23 July 2016 - 04:07 AM

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Well all i offer are examples to better these races, because they just aren't adequate now. SOo, any of the above race change suggestions should be considered. All the suggestions are more appropriate then what it is now anyways.

 


Edited by RuNeZz, 23 July 2016 - 04:13 AM.


Kainrain #39 Posted 23 July 2016 - 05:53 PM

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Since they are an aggressive race, maybe make it to where they get a potential 10-20% production bonus when making ships so that they can pump out ships faster?  You could also give them bonuses to hull, or shields, etc...something different than the other races that are getting beam bonuses to give them a separate edge in combat.  I think that the ground troop bonuses are not very realistic right now in the games current state.  The troop transports and movement in general may need to be redesigned since it's so much easier to simply bombard a planet then to work on and protect troop transports, it's simply a waste of time.  Possibly consider adding troops to crusiers and above automatically vs. individual transports giving you the option of attacking via land vs. bombardment more often. And with the marrshan you could give them troops at destroyers and above or something to this effect.  Long story short, if you want their benefit to be around ground troops, you have to make the ground troop idea more usuable and realistic vs. simply just bombing a planet.  Bombing is to easy and you can simply wipe planets out instead of invading.  Just some thoughts...thank you!

Edited by Kainrain, 23 July 2016 - 05:55 PM.


Prrsha #40 Posted 23 July 2016 - 08:25 PM

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View PostKainrain, on 23 July 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Since they are an aggressive race, maybe make it to where they get a potential 10-20% production bonus when making ships so that they can pump out ships faster?  You could also give them bonuses to hull, or shields, etc...something different than the other races that are getting beam bonuses to give them a separate edge in combat.  I think that the ground troop bonuses are not very realistic right now in the games current state.  The troop transports and movement in general may need to be redesigned since it's so much easier to simply bombard a planet then to work on and protect troop transports, it's simply a waste of time.  Possibly consider adding troops to crusiers and above automatically vs. individual transports giving you the option of attacking via land vs. bombardment more often. And with the marrshan you could give them troops at destroyers and above or something to this effect.  Long story short, if you want their benefit to be around ground troops, you have to make the ground troop idea more usuable and realistic vs. simply just bombing a planet.  Bombing is to easy and you can simply wipe planets out instead of invading.  Just some thoughts...thank you!

 

You don't need to increase their production rate so they can make ships faster, there is already a mechanism in place for that.  It is the -20% ship cost pick in the custom race menu.  That works just fine without stealing the bonus production thunder from the Melkar or Klackon.  In short just a simple bonus to their command points, a +50% beam attack, and maybe a -20% ship cost would make them the most powerful spacefaring combat race bar none (aggression wise).  Take away any ground combat stuff because that belongs rightly to the Bulrathi.  If the devs HAVE to add some aspect of ground combat to them just toss them a +25% ground combat... nothing greater then that or they start veering away from what they were designed to be (according to Wargame's web site).




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