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What to do with the Mrrshan?


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Poll: How should Mrrshan be? (45 members have cast votes)

How should Mrrshan be?

  1. Leave them as they are (Uber Planet, 50% Ground Combat, Barracks) (1 vote [2.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.00%

  2. Give them Beam Attack (Uber Planet, 50% Beam Attack) (28 votes [56.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.00%

  3. Give them better Ships/Elite Crews (Uber Planet, +25% Beam Attack, +25% Beam Defense) (16 votes [32.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.00%

  4. Other (Specify in Comment) (5 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

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Omega_Weapon #61 Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:22 AM

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View PostPrrsha, on 12 August 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

With the game coming out at the end of this month, I know what to recommend to my fellow gamers.


 

The game is riddled with bugs and typos.  You failed to balance the races and keep them in line with their predecessors.  This could have been a simple fix for the development staff.  Now you have a game that is imbalanced and will fall flat in multiplayer and in singleplayer.  Time and money was wasted on yet another cash grab.  Hopefully fellow journalists will bring out reality of the state of the game and inform players before they make an ill advised purchased based solely on AAA hype.  Mr. Keeling last statement regarding sales should be the mantra on why this game was made.  It wasn't made for you, it was made for a playerbase that did not include the fans of the game.  It is relying on (according to Keeling) new players who have no experiences with previous Master of Orion games.  That whole "We are going back to the roots of Master of Orion 1" promo videos were a lie.  Nice try NGD, the chips were stacked against you with the time frame you were given to fix this game.  You did well with damage control but in the end I don't see that it will matter much.  I feel sorry for all the little guys involved in this game (programmers, artists, and even forum moderators).  It was a hill that no one could climb and the director of MOO cts designed a sheer wall for you.

 

I hope you will post a link when your review is finished. Kind of know how its going to go, but still curious to see the specifics.

Vahouth #62 Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:38 AM

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What to do with the Mrrshan? 

 

How about this? 

MRRSHAN

Militarists: +10% Ground Combat, +10% command points, +10% Morale (NEW DESCRIPTION)

Plains Dweller: Homeworld Type Arid, Uber Planet Grassland (ADDED DESCRIPTION: +10% Ground Combat Rating in Arid/Grassland planets, +10% food in Grassland.)

Warlord+50% Beam Attack, +10% Command Points. (NEW DESCRIPTION)

Diplomacy: Worsen Disposition with Alkari  -NEW TRAIT-



Prrsha #63 Posted 29 August 2016 - 07:56 PM

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Those seem fine.  I just wish the developers would make an official comment on the issue.  Can changes be made or not?

Moriden #64 Posted 31 August 2016 - 12:38 AM

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I think they really need to have the "expert pilots" trait htat gives beam attack damage and ship speed.

Prrsha #65 Posted 31 August 2016 - 06:10 AM

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View PostMoriden, on 30 August 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

I think they really need to have the "expert pilots" trait htat gives beam attack damage and ship speed.

 

I'd like their old beam attack returned but don't forget that Alkari historically were the best at beam evasion due to their adaptation of 3 dimensional space.  In Moo1 Alkari got an extra evasion bonus as well with smaller ships.  As for ship speed that was addressed in Moo2 with the Trilarians.  Historically, Mrrshans really should have a bonus to command points to raise large fleets (as in Moo2) and have their +50% beam attack in order to make them more aggressive in space combat. (As in both Moo1 and 2)


 

These two racial clashes (from space combat traits), one of extreme offensive and one of extreme defense, made both the Mrrshan and Alkari bitter enemies in Moo1.



Metonymy #66 Posted 31 August 2016 - 09:47 PM

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Coupling the race's "fantasy" to meaningful gameplay is important.  This game is not just a sterile exercise in conquest, but also a fun little story about animals killing each other in space.

 

It is irrational and frankly absurd to give "blue team" humans ordinary combat skills, while the "red team" humans a full 25% bonus to weapon attacks.  These two groups are genetically identical, and it's a mental jolt to be asked to believe that one of them is that much better at shooting.  I'm sure you feel as insulted as I do, because it also disrespects established lore in the most direct manner possible.

 

If the evil humans have to be given a meaningful advantage over the other races for some reason (selling more game copies?), then just think of something new.  If I were going to fix this without writing new code, I would simply buff their existing characteristic, such as morale to 25 or 30%, so they can tax the bejesus out of their little nazi citizens, which is perfect for establishing new bases on conquered planets.  If I had time to write new code, I would give them some kind of first-strike capability that doesn't affect normal wartime battles.  Your first attack against friendly colonies is drastically more effective due to saboteurs or something.

 

With that being said, I like the new little features that some races were assigned, like making Bulrathi ecologists, and Mrrshan slightly more diplomatic.



MasterOfOrionConquerTheS #67 Posted 02 September 2016 - 07:23 PM

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I dunno why the Khanate gets beam weapon bonuses. I'd have given them pollution resistance due to their masks and such. 

Prrsha #68 Posted 02 September 2016 - 08:49 PM

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View PostEmP64213, on 01 September 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

The fact that Terran Khanate is available only by paying extra cash might be the reason why Mrrshans had to be changed. We will have to convince them to change Khanate before expecting getting Mrrshans back to their role.

 

That was my initial thought and was proposed in the material for review.  The Terrans are designed to be most likeable for any new player to the MOO series.  Games of this era focus on combat and brute strength to resolve problems.  I am sure this allure was discussed by the design team to try to rope in people to buy the collector's edition.  The Terrans are the most over powered race (point wise) and for those players who don't have the collector's edition, they might feel outmatched in a multiplayer match (even though the truth of the matter is that the Melkar are the most overpowered race due to their broken Cybernetic trait).

Metonymy #69 Posted 03 September 2016 - 10:59 PM

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Lets assume for the sake of the argument that they're not going to fix the Red Humans (after all, they are the good guys..right?)  And lets assume that most of the racial identities are in a pretty good place, because they are.  That just leaves Bulrathi and Mrrshans as being ugly reflections of each other, and also kind of weak compared to flat development or combat bonuses that other races get.  Ground combat just isn't that important.

 

The Mrrshan, based on their starting conditions, are clearly intended to begin building destroyers and attack early.  Why else would the game give you destroyer tech?  The fact that enemies are hard to find, and ships are hard to build at this stage of the game is the problem, along with the clear overlap with the red humans' ability to build ships more easily.  Both militarist and warlord are now obsolete and should both be scrapped.  A race intended to use troops offensively doesn't actually need more troops on their colonies.  (I'm assuming troop transports still require only production to create?)

 

The key to fixing Mrrshans is to give them an ability which is useful for the entire game, and not rendered completely obsolete by minor advancements in technology.  The 'correct' choice is the +50% weapon accuracy, but I'm losing faith in that becoming a reality.  Without borrowing too heavily from the 'Elerian' design, I was thinking of a bonus that is triggered every time a successful battle occurs.  The simplest way to do this is to give ship experience to the current Mrrshan fleet based upon the cost of enemy ships destroyed.  They would eventually become godlike hunters, and retaining specific ship crews would be essential to your long term success.  This retains the Mrrshan flavor without having to give them a starting bonus, or interfere directly with the gimmick race.

 

I also think the Bulrathi are very weak, and should get an additional property related to their troop transport survival, when passing through enemies.  Their highly armored fleet is specifically mentioned in the flavor text, and it could be a simple calculation based on enemy ship size and quantity, and current tech level of the two fleets.  Alternatively, their colony structures and defensive structures could be similarly more difficult to destroy, by having a higher base hit points.  Their identity would be "defense of their ecological paradises."  At minimum, they should have the 'extended barracks' and 'improved training rate' that the mrrshan have now, since it doesn't really benefit the cats in any way.



Vahouth #70 Posted 03 September 2016 - 11:59 PM

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Ground combat rating is among the weak traits, true. And the fact that every race either has the same rating or a +50% bonus doesn't help to making stand out as something important.

 

In order for it to be a trait that matters, there should be a few things added to the game IMHO.

1) Ground Combat Rating should be introduced in space battles with boarding actions

2) There must be more variety in GCR. You can't expect a Psilon to fight as good as a Sakkra or as cunning as a flying Alkari.

3) It should matter for a soldier what gravity type he is accustomed to and into what gravity field the battle is taking place.

 

 

4) Maybe there should also be a droid army, for those who cannot fight well enough on their own? ;)


Edited by Vahouth, 04 September 2016 - 12:00 AM.


WildPotatoMage #71 Posted 08 September 2016 - 03:24 AM

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Other: Wipe them out on sight.

 

Because they deserve it.



wwwzugzugorc #72 Posted 08 September 2016 - 09:10 PM

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No one is gonna mention the fact that they are the only race with stagnant population growth at the start of the game with the standard 2/2/2 worker distribution?

PLA_123 #73 Posted 09 September 2016 - 01:47 AM

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+50% Beam attack is a must for the Cats.

Prrsha #74 Posted 16 September 2016 - 01:44 AM

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View Postwwwzugzugorc, on 08 September 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

No one is gonna mention the fact that they are the only race with stagnant population growth at the start of the game with the standard 2/2/2 worker distribution?

 

That is another issue regarding them.  Right now the Mrrshan need a major overhaul to get them in line with their previous incarnations.  There is still no work from the design team regarding them for 4 months.  Are things that slow there?

Kain_Phalanx #75 Posted 16 September 2016 - 05:25 PM

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I think the idea is supposed to be that you focus more on hunting pirates for population with the destroyer tech you start with and that you rely on capturing colony populations more.  It's good to remember that racial specialization, rather than being enforced like in the earlier versions, is up to you to maximize now.  Esp. with choosing what to research and play style.  So while it may be uncomfortable to focus on ships early on in preparation for an uncertain battle rather than the usual, reliable research of biology for population growth, you may need to adopt an extreme play style to maximize the Mrrshan strategy.  The Mrrshan empress's quote about taking what you want strikes me as important.

 

A question I have is if the Improved Negotiations perk helps with making demands.



Vahouth #76 Posted 16 September 2016 - 06:16 PM

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The improved negotiations trait came out of the blue. It was completely uncalled for.

 



Arent11 #77 Posted 18 September 2016 - 09:49 AM

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View PostKain_Phalanx, on 16 September 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

I think the idea is supposed to be that you focus more on hunting pirates for population with the destroyer tech you start with and that you rely on capturing colony populations more.  It's good to remember that racial specialization, rather than being enforced like in the earlier versions, is up to you to maximize now.  Esp. with choosing what to research and play style.  So while it may be uncomfortable to focus on ships early on in preparation for an uncertain battle rather than the usual, reliable research of biology for population growth, you may need to adopt an extreme play style to maximize the Mrrshan strategy.  The Mrrshan empress's quote about taking what you want strikes me as important.

 

A question I have is if the Improved Negotiations perk helps with making demands.

 

Well, I don't want to rule out that there is a playstyle with the Mrrshan that makes Ground Combat/Barracks extremely important/advantageous. If there were neutral planets or lots of pirates to invade, then it could potentially be great to simply build some transports early game and invade these planets instead of building own colonies. That's one strategy I use with Assyrians in Civ 5. However with only pirates as "neutrals" around, ground combat seems not so important.

 

 



St_Turkey #78 Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:59 PM

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View PostArent11, on 18 September 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

 

Well, I don't want to rule out that there is a playstyle with the Mrrshan that makes Ground Combat/Barracks extremely important/advantageous. If there were neutral planets or lots of pirates to invade, then it could potentially be great to simply build some transports early game and invade these planets instead of building own colonies. That's one strategy I use with Assyrians in Civ 5. However with only pirates as "neutrals" around, ground combat seems not so important.

 

 

 

It depends on how you go approaching a Victory.  Capturing Planets full of Psilons is great when you are trying to get a Tech Victory.  For Diplomatic Victories, capturing Klackon and Sakraa Worlds can be huge in tipping the balance at a quick rate (especially if you are Silicoid/Lithovore) instead of rebuilding from scratch.  If you are looking to Conquer, those productive races can help you crank out more and more ships on the go.

CptSkyhawk #79 Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:22 AM

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View PostSt_Turkey, on 19 September 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

 

It depends on how you go approaching a Victory.  Capturing Planets full of Psilons is great when you are trying to get a Tech Victory.  For Diplomatic Victories, capturing Klackon and Sakraa Worlds can be huge in tipping the balance at a quick rate (especially if you are Silicoid/Lithovore) instead of rebuilding from scratch.  If you are looking to Conquer, those productive races can help you crank out more and more ships on the go.

 

First off, Silicoids aren't Mrrshan, so while you are correct it doesn't change the fact that it isn't all that useful for Mrrshan to have the ground combat bonuses.

 

Second off, I usually find that it is a lot less hassle to just destroy colonies and rebuild them when I need to, the whole transport thing takes way too long to build and send since they are one time use ships.



St_Turkey #80 Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:08 PM

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View PostCptSkyhawk, on 20 September 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

 

First off, Silicoids aren't Mrrshan, so while you are correct it doesn't change the fact that it isn't all that useful for Mrrshan to have the ground combat bonuses.

 

Second off, I usually find that it is a lot less hassle to just destroy colonies and rebuild them when I need to, the whole transport thing takes way too long to build and send since they are one time use ships.

 

Sounds like a personal preference rather than choosing to take advantage of your bonuses.  As I said, it depends on how you are approaching your Victory. 

 

I wasn't using a Ground Combat Specialist race and I doubled my population in a third of the time by capturing colonies it would have taken if I bombed and Colonized.  A lot of infrastructure was already in place, so it it took less time for them to get running as well.






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