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Wait... What? What did I just see? Seriously? Is this even real quote?


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kwm1800 #1 Posted 27 July 2016 - 05:33 AM

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http://steamcommunit...543951734130253

 

So, someone asked why are there only 8 slots for ship design, and this is what we got apparently.

 

GeneralDirection

 At the moment this is intentional. It's not due to a technical limitation, but rather the design vision behind the feature. That said, please feel free to suggest ways of increasing the blueprint cap. The new tech-related increase was born from a suggestion, so we're certainly open to them. We would like there to be some feeling of investment behind creating them, rather than just allowing an endless number of blueprints. But we also don't want it to feel so restrictive that you don't bother with experimenting with ship designs.

 

Is this.... I mean. Is it really possible to think this way? This reasoning is so steadfastly ludicrous that... I don't know how to describe in words.

 

I think now I fully understand why we have such laughable pollution mechanics and population management. This is literally f2p developer mentality. You know, "grind/earn and get a new slot for your character!" thing.

 

If you have read my posting history here, I really had been restraining myself from bashing developers as much as possible.

This will be my first and last developer bashing post here.

 

 

If you believe this game made by such developer here will have any chance, you are literally kidding yourselves.


Edited by kwm1800, 27 July 2016 - 05:37 AM.


Lemonymous #2 Posted 27 July 2016 - 05:56 AM

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Hmm.. that's not exactly the way I interpreted that quote. They just seem to strive to keep the UI minimalistic and clean just like many other products do nowadays. They could have unlimited blueprints, but then you'd need the scrollbar (or tabs, etc). I have a feeling they don't like scrollbars (or any UI element really) unless absolutely necessary. So when you don't have a scroll bar, there will naturally be a limit of some sort. Now it's 8. If it's not enough, argue why this is and maybe they will change it. That's how I read the quote. Maybe I'm naive...

People have been arguing about longer build queues as well, so we'll see how they react to that.

 

I would very much doubt they intend to put microtransactions in this game. It wouldn't work on a single player title like this.

 

For what it's worth I think 8 is a bit low as well, but I can manage.

 

Edit: Btw, what is the "new tech-related increase"? Am I missing something here?


Edited by Lemonymous, 27 July 2016 - 05:59 AM.


Omega_Weapon #3 Posted 27 July 2016 - 06:03 AM

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Well there are 5 different ship sizes not including doomstars (frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battleship, and titan). As a minimum we should have 2 design slots for each size. Including a slot for the doomstar that would be 11 slots. Better to allow 3 design variations for each hull size though which would mean 16 design slots in total.

Omega_Weapon #4 Posted 27 July 2016 - 06:05 AM

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View PostLemonymous, on 27 July 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

Edit: Btw, what is the "new tech-related increase"? Am I missing something here?

 

​Every time you research a new hull size, you also get an increase for the number of design slots available.

Lemonymous #5 Posted 27 July 2016 - 06:06 AM

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View PostOmega_Weapon, on 27 July 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

 

​Every time you research a new hull size, you also get an increase for the number of design slots available.

 

Oh really? That seems kind of arbitrary... Maybe I take back some of what I said before...

 

Somewhat unrelated edit: Did a quick test and found a possible bug:

I had a planet build a ship, and then scrapped the blueprint. The planet still showed it building the ship of the scrapped blueprint. The next turn however; the ship was not built, and the production was discarded.


Edited by Lemonymous, 27 July 2016 - 06:17 AM.


Endsor #6 Posted 27 July 2016 - 10:01 AM

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View Postkwm1800, on 27 July 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

If you believe this game made by such developer here will have any chance, you are literally kidding yourselves.

 

I came to much same conclusion months ago and gave up on this game as hopeless. Many others disappointed fans have already left in disgust. These devs simply don't have technical ability or vision to make a good moo game except as a simple children-friendly phone-app. If only Paradox had offered highest bid for the IP instead of WG we might have had chance at a good Moo instead of being stuck with this.....

fourteenfour #7 Posted 27 July 2016 - 12:00 PM

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There is no point to limiting the number of blue prints as the list of blueprints, however if they want to avoid another list box, which we all know the suck at sorting properly let alone scrolling at times. I suggest that each ship design entry be reduced to one line. The small icon for type, the name and attack/defense power.  

 

Now what is really funny is that you  can and will have more than eight blueprints active in late games because it may not be affordable to upgrade existing  ships. So they do track all ships  individually and they know each unique name. Just reduce the three line name to one or two to free up UI space  and increase the limit. Also, for each design can you please save the "year in service" to indicate when it was created.


Wargaming Labs, taking the money and running. Abandons MOO CTS after their contract development staff could not deliver without ever one word to players.

Omega_Weapon #8 Posted 27 July 2016 - 01:48 PM

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View PostEmP64213, on 27 July 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

Limiting ship blueprint slots would make GUI nice on their display resolution but not on everybody's. They don't need outright scrollbars, up/down arrows would be fine for scrolling by few items beyond visual limit and encourage people to not make too many blueprints. Only merrit of their system is that it makes player to clean up the list from time to time.

F2P/mobile way of thinking is exactly opposite of what MoO title needs.

 

How about showing one design slot by default for each hull size. Then if we wanted to add more designs we could just click an arrow to the side of that slot for the specific hull size. You could have 3 or more and just rotate through them as neccessary. The UI would not look cluttered because there would still be only 6 design slots showing at any one time. I could have "Battleship A" showing, then click once and get a new "Battleship B" slot rotated in to design "Carrier", without deleting or changing "Battleship". I do it a third time and design a "Bomber-Battleship" in Battleship C" slot. Then I can just flip between the three  whenever I want to build a Battleship sized vessel.

Edited by Omega_Weapon, 27 July 2016 - 01:50 PM.


CecilPaladin #9 Posted 27 July 2016 - 02:36 PM

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The more blueprint designs they give you, the more each planet's build window gets cluttered up.  Remember, each ship design adds a selection to your colony build window.  If you had 99 ship designs, it would be terrible to sort through which one you actually wanted to build.

 

MOO1 had 6 slots if I remembered correctly, so I guess the 8 we have now is an upgrade?  I use to have to scrap the smaller ship designs in favor of the larger more important ones later on.  I dunno, perhaps 10 would be better number.



RayFowler #10 Posted 27 July 2016 - 02:51 PM

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Having a limited number of ship design slots is something that goes back to the original MOO, which is arguably the best game of the series.

 

When you have a limited number of design slots (MOO1 had 6), you are forced to make hard decisions about when to upgrade your fleet since doing so involves scrapping old ships. You can't simply do it whenever you learn a new technology since you could then never build up a large fleet. You have to wait until the cost of using obsolete ships exceeds the cost of building newer ships from scratch.

 

Sid Meier would call it an "interesting decision".


Master of Orion fan since 1993

Lemonymous #11 Posted 27 July 2016 - 04:57 PM

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View PostCecilPaladin, on 27 July 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

The more blueprint designs they give you, the more each planet's build window gets cluttered up.  Remember, each ship design adds a selection to your colony build window.  If you had 99 ship designs, it would be terrible to sort through which one you actually wanted to build.

 

MOO1 had 6 slots if I remembered correctly, so I guess the 8 we have now is an upgrade?  I use to have to scrap the smaller ship designs in favor of the larger more important ones later on.  I dunno, perhaps 10 would be better number.

 

Who asked for 99 blueprints?

 

You mean cluttering up this mess?

Spoiler

 

Sort them by size, remove 5x entries and add an infinite button to all for repeat build to tidy it up. Should be room for more blueprints without clutter now. (Alternatively, the repeat build button can be put somewhere else if it's clutter on every blueprint) Edited image:

Spoiler

 

View PostRayFowler, on 27 July 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Having a limited number of ship design slots is something that goes back to the original MOO, which is arguably the best game of the series.

 

When you have a limited number of design slots (MOO1 had 6), you are forced to make hard decisions about when to upgrade your fleet since doing so involves scrapping old ships. You can't simply do it whenever you learn a new technology since you could then never build up a large fleet. You have to wait until the cost of using obsolete ships exceeds the cost of building newer ships from scratch.

 

Sid Meier would call it an "interesting decision".

 

I thought about this as well. It was an interesting dynamic in MoO1 (which I agree is the best of the lot). I don't think it is as clear cut in this instance though. The upgrade mechanic, as well as the fact that you keep the ships you scrap blueprints for makes very limited blueprints (no we don't need 99) more of a nuicance than having a clear function. Imo anyways. 

 


Edited by Lemonymous, 27 July 2016 - 05:02 PM.


Jei_Cober #12 Posted 14 September 2016 - 11:31 AM

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There NEEDs to be more than 8 slots... SO humans And AI will have Mixed fleets of larger and smaller designs...  In late game it would get boring only being able to have just larger ships with a few designs... I cant have a good mix in the fleet with only 8 slots... and it restricts the AI to the bigger ships... I like a realistic fleet of a spread of my favorite designs... This is a big Designed BUG... just double the slots or at least 4 more..

CptSkyhawk #13 Posted 14 September 2016 - 12:26 PM

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I don't see any problem with the current limit on blueprints, tbh.  There really is no need for 3 of each class of ship.

However, I would like to see some stuff cleaned up, which would give the ability to have more blueprints.  When you go to the blueprint screen, you should be able to select a tab for each ship class.  Under that tab you should have multiple slots for blueprints.  This would allow people to have 2 or more designs of every ship class that they want.  In the build screen on a colony, you should have a ship tab with the basic ship classes listed, when you click a ship class it should give you an option of available blueprints.  Same for when upgrading a ship, you should click upgrade and have a list of available design upgrades listed.

Additionally there should be a continuous build option, but that is something that I will address in another post about production and colony management.

St_Turkey #14 Posted 14 September 2016 - 03:41 PM

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View PostJei_Cober, on 14 September 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

There NEEDs to be more than 8 slots... SO humans And AI will have Mixed fleets of larger and smaller designs...  In late game it would get boring only being able to have just larger ships with a few designs... I cant have a good mix in the fleet with only 8 slots... and it restricts the AI to the bigger ships... I like a realistic fleet of a spread of my favorite designs... This is a big Designed BUG... just double the slots or at least 4 more..

 

Since we don't have to dedicate blueprint space to Colony Ships (yes, this was a thing, partly due to biome-specific Colony Base tech), I honestly do not see the need for more than 8 slots other than just room for playing around with designs.  With how the upgrade system is now, having more blueprints really isn't that important unless you like rebuilding your fleet with every upgrade.

 

As I have played a Custom Race with Strategist and Production Bonus my last few games, only anything Cruiser-size or less is worth having multiple Types of.  And even with these smaller ships, I would only compile them in to one of three designs: "Space Superiority", "Bomber", or "Mix".  I even tend to use the "Mix" concept because having even a single Bomb on Destroyers and Frigates are too useful for most of the game to ignore.  Battleships and Titans just take too dang long too build unless you have a multi-planet system doing a decent Export business.

 

View PostCptSkyhawk, on 14 September 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

I don't see any problem with the current limit on blueprints, tbh. There really is no need for 3 of each class of ship.

However, I would like to see some stuff cleaned up, which would give the ability to have more blueprints. When you go to the blueprint screen, you should be able to select a tab for each ship class. Under that tab you should have multiple slots for blueprints. This would allow people to have 2 or more designs of every ship class that they want. In the build screen on a colony, you should have a ship tab with the basic ship classes listed, when you click a ship class it should give you an option of available blueprints. Same for when upgrading a ship, you should click upgrade and have a list of available design upgrades listed.

Additionally there should be a continuous build option, but that is something that I will address in another post about production and colony management.

 

Agreed.

 

Though, the Colony Build screen could take a page from Civilization and not present certain upgrades until previous upgrades are made.  Such as after building an Automated Factory, Neutron Colliders becomes available, then Robotic Miners, etc.  This wouldn't justify multiple blueprints anymore than it does now.



Grosh #15 Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:07 AM

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I must agree the way that blueprint works is really ineffective in every way and make a ship with a different name that you have deleted the BP hard to manage.

So here what i propose to help this up:

1- Make a selectable tab where the blueprints are already listed with a list of hull class ship, when you select one hull you got the listed blueprint under it according to that selected hull so that you won't have a huge list of blueprint to scroll down or up to find the blueprint you are looking for.

2- You could easily reduce the size of the actual blueprint listing by half and increase the number of shown blueprint to 6 instead of 4, if you think it will be to small to read the text or detail of the blueprint then make it zoomable every time you slide the cursor over it.

3- Make it possible to upg an old blueprint design that you have deleted to an existing one of your choice. At the moment what happened is this: I got 2 blueprints of a destroyer a new blueprint and the old one that i have discarded, the new one as 10 offense 39 defense and the old one as 12 offense 23 defense, when i have upgded my old ship to the blueprint that i though it would have upgded it, it did not, instead the upg was worst, it felt to 9 offense and 15 defense.






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