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how could this game MOO be saved still MOO4 MOO:CTS

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Mikko_M #1 Posted 03 August 2016 - 06:38 PM

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Many of us forum regulars here are already pretty much ready to write this game off as the release draws ever nearer and there are still so many problems or irritating features in the game. But what would it take to actually save this game for you? I would personally say at least the following things should be done:

 

 

1. Remove Chris Keeling from the head of this project, as it is painfully obvious that the man has no idea what he is doing.

 

​2. Postpone the release to way back next year, so that there is time to do larger changes to the game.

 
3. Get someone to lead this project who actually has some experience with space 4X and strategy games, understands the word quality AND (or at least) WHO LISTENS TO THE COMMUNITY.
 
4. Add more control options for ships in tactical combat.
 
5. Reduce the amount of needless micromanagement in the game.
 
6. Make sure that different races feel both unique and interesting.
 
7. Get that multiplayer tactical combat option ready for release. (As tactical combat is the part of the game where you can most clearly separate yourself from the competition).
 
8. Reduce, where you can, the childish feel of the game.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


Edited by Mikko_M, 03 August 2016 - 06:45 PM.

Moreover, I advise that the tactical combat must be made more player controllable and informative for this to become a proper MOO game.

 

​The long lost formula for space 4X game success = Good tactical combat + good empire management > than just good tactical combat or good empire management alone.


ApolloMissy51511 #2 Posted 03 August 2016 - 06:57 PM

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View PostMikko_M, on 03 August 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Many of us forum regulars here are already pretty much ready to write this game off as the release draws ever nearer and there are still so many problems or irritating features in the game. But what would it take to actually save this game for you? I would personally say at least the following things should be done:

 

 

1. Remove Chris Keeling from the head of this project, as it is painfully obvious that the man has no idea what he is doing.

 

​2. Postpone the release to way back next year, so that there is time to do larger changes to the game.

 
3. Get someone to lead this project who actually has some experience with space 4X and strategy games, understands the word quality AND (or at least) WHO LISTENS TO THE COMMUNITY.
 
4. Add more control options for ships in tactical combat.
 
5. Reduce the amount of needless micromanagement in the game.
 
6. Make sure that different races feel both unique and interesting.
 
7. Get that multiplayer tactical combat option ready for release. (As tactical combat is the part of the game where you can most clearly separate yourself from the competition).
 
8. Reduce, where you can, the childish feel of the game.

While we are always appreciative of constructive criticism and feedback I feel that your post is rather unfair as it seems many of these so called points are personal points of view rather than a collective data driven feedback. I ask that you please refrain from personal attacks and come back with something much more constructive. 



Omega_Weapon #3 Posted 03 August 2016 - 06:59 PM

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If those 8 actually happened, I think this game could become epic. Even if most of them happened, it would result in so much improvement.

Mikko_M #4 Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:10 PM

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View PostElPozoleOlmeca, on 03 August 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

While we are always appreciative of constructive criticism and feedback I feel that your post is rather unfair as it seems many of these so called points are personal points of view rather than a collective data driven feedback. I ask that you please refrain from personal attacks and come back with something much more constructive. 

 

​You can collect that "collective date driven feedback" here on the forums, if you dare, as you are going to find a lot of not too happy explorers here. And at the same time you might also think about why so many of the forum regulars that we had from almost day one have vanished from here. Could it perhaps be because our Wargaming lead has managed to drive them away with his sub-par vision for a MOO game and at the same time used who knows how much of your employers resources?

Moreover, I advise that the tactical combat must be made more player controllable and informative for this to become a proper MOO game.

 

​The long lost formula for space 4X game success = Good tactical combat + good empire management > than just good tactical combat or good empire management alone.


RayFowler #5 Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:25 PM

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View PostMikko_M, on 03 August 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

 

​You can collect that "collective date driven feedback" here on the forums, if you dare, as you are going to find a lot of not too happy explorers here.

 

There are maybe 15 regular posters in this forum. It would make a lot more sense for them to look at their feedback on Steam.
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Mikko_M #6 Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:30 PM

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View PostRayFowler, on 03 August 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

 

There are maybe 15 regular posters in this forum. It would make a lot more sense for them to look at their feedback on Steam.

 

​And you can find the exact same complaints being posted there over and over again as well. Although with a couple of hopefulls in between them as well saying something like "Oh this is just EA, so it is sure to get a lot better still." (Which I very much doubt if they are going to release the game already this year.)

 

Also the ones who have been most active on the forums have been mostly those who truly care about this franchise and its great past.


Edited by Mikko_M, 03 August 2016 - 08:00 PM.

Moreover, I advise that the tactical combat must be made more player controllable and informative for this to become a proper MOO game.

 

​The long lost formula for space 4X game success = Good tactical combat + good empire management > than just good tactical combat or good empire management alone.


diehardtwinsfan #7 Posted 03 August 2016 - 11:31 PM

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yeah, if you want something to do something constructive, post ideas to fix the game.  I'm really not seeing how a bunch of fans know anything about the inner workings of WG and can give an honest assessment from this perspective.

Endsor #8 Posted 03 August 2016 - 11:42 PM

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View PostMikko_M, on 03 August 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

Many of us forum regulars here are already pretty much ready to write this game off as the release draws ever nearer and there are still so many problems or irritating features in the game. But what would it take to actually save this game for you?

 

The game is a disaster and cannot be saved. Maybe not as total failure as moo3 but still impossible to recover at this late stage. As you say most hardcore fans who were ignored for months have already given up in disgust and moved on from such a depressing no-win situation. Kudos to those of you who stayed and fought, but you fight a losing battle which cannot be won.

 

I hope the small children this game is aimed at will not buy. I hope that moo5 will fall into much more capable hands in future. Beyond that there is no hope.



CecilPaladin #9 Posted 03 August 2016 - 11:46 PM

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View PostMikko_M, on 03 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

 

​And at the same time you might also think about why so many of the forum regulars that we had from almost day one have vanished from here. Could it perhaps be because our Wargaming lead has managed to drive them away with his sub-par vision for a MOO game and at the same time used who knows how much of your employers resources?

 

Naw, the forum regulars were regular complainers.  Luckily those folks have moved onto other things once they realized star lanes were here to stay.  The other folks that are happy with the game are busy PLAYING the game.  People that are unhappy are the loudest, and the majority that does NOT make.  You remind me of a certain nominee we see on the news.  Make MOO Great again, am I right?  I think it's already a great game.



Jaimoe_1 #10 Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:04 AM

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View PostCecilPaladin, on 03 August 2016 - 11:46 PM, said:

 

Naw, the forum regulars were regular complainers.  Luckily those folks have moved onto other things once they realized star lanes were here to stay.  The other folks that are happy with the game are busy PLAYING the game.  People that are unhappy are the loudest, and the majority that does NOT make.  You remind me of a certain nominee we see on the news.  Make MOO Great again, am I right?  I think it's already a great game.

 

Ahh Christ keep your damn politics out of this. Games like this are an escape from all that crap.

Dizeit_ #11 Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:14 AM

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View PostCecilPaladin, on 03 August 2016 - 11:46 PM, said:

Naw, the forum regulars were regular complainers.  Luckily those folks have moved onto other things once they realized star lanes were here to stay.  The other folks that are happy with the game are busy PLAYING the game.  People that are unhappy are the loudest, and the majority that does NOT make.  You remind me of a certain nominee we see on the news.  Make MOO Great again, am I right?  I think it's already a great game.

 

No-option star lanes forcibly shoehorned into a MOO game?? No wonder they complained, no wonder they moved on. Makes perfect sense. This isn't a MOO game, its just another poorly-designed, mediocre 4x with the MOO label slapped on for marketing purposes.

ApolloMissy51511 #12 Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:24 AM

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View PostMikko_M, on 03 August 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

 

​And you can find the exact same complaints being posted there over and over again as well. Although with a couple of hopefulls in between them as well saying something like "Oh this is just EA, so it is sure to get a lot better still." (Which I very much doubt if they are going to release the game already this year.)

 

Also the ones who have been most active on the forums have been mostly those who truly care about this franchise and its great past.

But that is the thing, the data we've been acquiring since day 1 does not show this. Are there unsatisfied people? Of course, there will always be people who are not happy with something, in this case we have those who are not happy with the way the game is turning out and those who love it. But to say that the game is going down a wrong path because it was not what you envisioned it to be is a rather unfair way of generalizing how everyone who has played this game feels. I am very appreciative of all of those who have been here since day 1 and are still here, obviously there is something that still keeps you around and whether that is the community or the game everyone is welcomed. 



RayFowler #13 Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:36 AM

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View PostElPozoleOlmeca, on 03 August 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

But that is the thing, the data we've been acquiring since day 1 does not show this. Are there unsatisfied people? Of course, there will always be people who are not happy with something, in this case we have those who are not happy with the way the game is turning out and those who love it. But to say that the game is going down a wrong path because it was not what you envisioned it to be is a rather unfair way of generalizing how everyone who has played this game feels. I am very appreciative of all of those who have been here since day 1 and are still here, obviously there is something that still keeps you around and whether that is the community or the game everyone is welcomed. 

 

The old fans want MOO2 (or sometimes MOO1), but Wargaming needs to focus on making MOO4. It will be a different MOO, just like every other sequel in the series. You will never please any fans of the originals unless you make an exact clone, which is probably business suicide.

 

We'll know if MOO4 is a classic or an average game about one year after its release, after we've all had time to play it, take a break, and then find out if we want to play it again after the new has worn off. That's the hallmark of a great game.


Edited by RayFowler, 04 August 2016 - 12:36 AM.

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CecilPaladin #14 Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:58 AM

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View PostElPozoleOlmeca, on 04 August 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

But that is the thing, the data we've been acquiring since day 1 does not show this. Are there unsatisfied people? Of course, there will always be people who are not happy with something, in this case we have those who are not happy with the way the game is turning out and those who love it. But to say that the game is going down a wrong path because it was not what you envisioned it to be is a rather unfair way of generalizing how everyone who has played this game feels. I am very appreciative of all of those who have been here since day 1 and are still here, obviously there is something that still keeps you around and whether that is the community or the game everyone is welcomed. 

 

On Steam it was tracking in the 80%+ mark, and now is slightly down to the 79% recent and 73% overall rating.

 

BUT even with these FACTS, the naysayers still complain that EVERYONE hates it.  It's just tiresome to explain every time that the voice in YOUR head does not equate to the majority.  These numbers reflect that about 75% of the people who bought the game, like the game.  As I said earlier, the people that are happy don't post on the forums.  You only hear from all the people who dislike it, and they sure are loud.  With enough posts from them, they start to further reinforce their own incorrect assessment of the game.

 

Making threats and suggesting they fire people is not a little, its WAY over the top for a video game.  I mean really people?!?!  When I don't enjoy a game, I move onto the next one.  Why waste your time complaining about it?


Edited by CecilPaladin, 04 August 2016 - 01:08 AM.


MasterOfOrionConquerTheS #15 Posted 04 August 2016 - 03:33 AM

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View PostMikko_M, on 03 August 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

Many of us forum regulars here are already pretty much ready to write this game off as the release draws ever nearer and there are still so many problems or irritating features in the game. But what would it take to actually save this game for you? I would personally say at least the following things should be done:

 

 

1. Remove Chris Keeling from the head of this project, as it is painfully obvious that the man has no idea what he is doing.

 

​2. Postpone the release to way back next year, so that there is time to do larger changes to the game.

 
3. Get someone to lead this project who actually has some experience with space 4X and strategy games, understands the word quality AND (or at least) WHO LISTENS TO THE COMMUNITY.
 
4. Add more control options for ships in tactical combat.
 
5. Reduce the amount of needless micromanagement in the game.
 
6. Make sure that different races feel both unique and interesting.
 
7. Get that multiplayer tactical combat option ready for release. (As tactical combat is the part of the game where you can most clearly separate yourself from the competition).
 
8. Reduce, where you can, the childish feel of the game.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

Oh c'mon. Really? This is Moo2 lite with better graphics, or at least not too far from being a moddable version of it. Is this a perfect game ? No it isn't. Was stellaris a perfect game ? No, not even close either. 

 

Are you entitled to ask for the head of the project ? No. 

 

Who are you to oppose the "Childish" aspect ? Moo1 was super childish and i loved it. Moo3 removed the childishness and was a tasteless mess. 

 

I'd advice to try and have some realistic expectations. Also, your proposals are a conglomerate of "Make it better" comments that really don't add anything new. Wait for patches and expansions.



MasterOfOrionConquerTheS #16 Posted 04 August 2016 - 03:38 AM

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If you want to know Moo's current popularity, just access steam. 73% of 1639 reviews are positive.

 

Really, saying everyone hates it is just a plain lie when most people who bought the game, liked it.

 

A game with a 73% favorable reviews does not need to be "Saved".  It does need to be "Improved", but certainly it's not about to get Wargaming into bankrupcy or get the project director yelled at by anyone with say in it.



Arent11 #17 Posted 04 August 2016 - 04:54 AM

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View PostMasterOfOrionConquerTheS, on 04 August 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

 

Who are you to oppose the "Childish" aspect ? Moo1 was super childish and i loved it. Moo3 removed the childishness and was a tasteless mess. 

 

 

Exactly.

 

View PostMasterOfOrionConquerTheS, on 04 August 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

If you want to know Moo's current popularity, just access steam. 73% of 1639 reviews are positive.

 

 

Actually, the newest reviews are at 78%.

 

-> It is "allowed" to make shallow, childish versions of a game, especially if the first installment was "childish". I agree that moo cts is "decent" or "average", it might not be "great" (yet) but it is not a "failure" either.

 

4. Add more control options for ships in tactical combat.
 
Agree
 
5. Reduce the amount of needless micromanagement in the game.
 
Disagree or specifiy what micromanagement exactly is meant.
 
6. Make sure that different races feel both unique and interesting.
 
Agree
 
7. Get that multiplayer tactical combat option ready for release. (As tactical combat is the part of the game where you can most clearly separate yourself from the competition).
 
Agree but apparently WG lacks the manpower to get that ready in time.
 
8. Reduce, where you can, the childish feel of the game.
 
Disagree.
 

 

 

 



Lemonymous #18 Posted 04 August 2016 - 05:35 AM

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I do not in any way agree with the personal attacks some people are constantly repeating in various threads. I believe it not only hurts the developers, but also the arguments and feedback of other posters. I really hope this will stop.

 

View PostElPozoleOlmeca, on 04 August 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

But that is the thing, the data we've been acquiring since day 1 does not show this. Are there unsatisfied people? Of course, there will always be people who are not happy with something, in this case we have those who are not happy with the way the game is turning out and those who love it. But to say that the game is going down a wrong path because it was not what you envisioned it to be is a rather unfair way of generalizing how everyone who has played this game feels. I am very appreciative of all of those who have been here since day 1 and are still here, obviously there is something that still keeps you around and whether that is the community or the game everyone is welcomed. 

 

This post has me a bit worried. I really hope I am misinterpreting, cause this sounds a bit like you're saying you're turning the deaf ear to those that are unhappy about the game in it's current iteration.

 

Of course, you cannot please all; but do you really believe the game is not going down any wrong paths anywhere?

 

Late game micromanagement for instance; are you happy where it's at currently?

I'll pick just a few examples so we don't have to talk about general ideas:

Pollution management, Civil Transports/colonists movement. Are these as you envision them? Are you working on ways to solve the issue with these mechanics not scaling with massive empires in sizeable galaxies? Do you even want to solve them?

 

You can of course create the game in any way you see fit, but if you are already set on your audience, I feel I shouldn't waste any more time giving feedback about issues that aren't looked at as problems anyways.


Edited by Lemonymous, 04 August 2016 - 05:41 AM.


Omega_Weapon #19 Posted 04 August 2016 - 08:59 AM

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View PostCecilPaladin, on 03 August 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

Making threats and suggesting they fire people is not a little, its WAY over the top for a video game.  I mean really people?!?!  When I don't enjoy a game, I move onto the next one.  Why waste your time complaining about it?

 

I would not care a fig about this game if it had not lured me in with the Master of Orion title. That ties it directly to the legacy of MOO. There are certain obligations to live up to the name. Otherwise call it something else and I could walk away instantly. Sure its "just a game", but its a very special game and I care enough about the Master of Orion legacy to try and keep its name from being sullied again as happened with MOO 3. The American flag is just some colorful fabric. Doesn't mean its fine to watch people dancing on it or setting it on fire. It may be a waste of time in the end to keep arguing but its the right thing to do. The "complainers" are still hoping to save this game from dismal mediocrity. If this MOO 4 team does not listen, maybe the eventual MOO 5 team will remember all of this and learn from it.

Mikko_M #20 Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:43 AM

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View PostCecilPaladin, on 04 August 2016 - 12:58 AM, said:

 

On Steam it was tracking in the 80%+ mark, and now is slightly down to the 79% recent and 73% overall rating.

 

BUT even with these FACTS, the naysayers still complain that EVERYONE hates it.  It's just tiresome to explain every time that the voice in YOUR head does not equate to the majority.  These numbers reflect that about 75% of the people who bought the game, like the game.  As I said earlier, the people that are happy don't post on the forums.  You only hear from all the people who dislike it, and they sure are loud.  With enough posts from them, they start to further reinforce their own incorrect assessment of the game.

 

Making threats and suggesting they fire people is not a little, its WAY over the top for a video game.  I mean really people?!?!  When I don't enjoy a game, I move onto the next one.  Why waste your time complaining about it?

 

Yeah let`s see what marks it will get when the game is actually (soon released) and all that hope of "its`s just early access it will surely get better still" will disappear? And as you can see from  ElPozoleOlmeca s  comments it seems that Wargaming is already pretty deep in denial mode that anything could be wrong with their precious little tablet MOO.

 

And as for calling for the head of the lead developer, when that lead developer has done virtually nothing right when he has been the head of this project and his biggest merits are ignorant comments about MOO and space 4X and pr. plunders (see that 10% tactical combat statement) I would say it is time to ask for a change.

 

BUT IF MR. KEELING IS TRULY SO PRECIOUS TO YOU THEN KEEP HIM (just keep him out of the media and any major decisions please!), BUT AT LEAST DO SOMETHING TO THE OTHER PROBLEMS MENTIONED IN MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND WHO KNOWS HOW MANY TIMES IN VARIOUS THREADS ON THIS FORUM TOO.

 

 

 

View PostRayFowler, on 04 August 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

 

The old fans want MOO2 (or sometimes MOO1), but Wargaming needs to focus on making MOO4. It will be a different MOO, just like every other sequel in the series. You will never please any fans of the originals unless you make an exact clone, which is probably business suicide.

 

We'll know if MOO4 is a classic or an average game about one year after its release, after we've all had time to play it, take a break, and then find out if we want to play it again after the new has worn off. That's the hallmark of a great game.

 

Except that is what multitude of fans are regularly asking for in various forums. Just an updated copy of MOO 2 with better graphics and better battle system. But can any developer ever do it, no, they always have to hire some Chris "I have no talent in space 4X" Keeling to lead the project to oblivion. And that never ending stupidity and waste of money is just disgusting to watch. :hiding:

 

And for all those asking for more contsructive feedback, I have given it in the past EA stages in the appropriate forums + on Steam too, but since Wargaming and NGD just ignores it everytime what is the point anymore? Go read those old EA threads through and implement the changes that I and many other users have frequently suggested and asked there instead of just fixing a couple minor bugs here and there.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Mikko_M, 04 August 2016 - 11:04 AM.

Moreover, I advise that the tactical combat must be made more player controllable and informative for this to become a proper MOO game.

 

​The long lost formula for space 4X game success = Good tactical combat + good empire management > than just good tactical combat or good empire management alone.





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