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Balanced Races Mod

Mod Race balance

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trbeier #81 Posted 02 November 2016 - 06:49 AM


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Hey Spud, I haven't seen your mods uploaded to the official site yet.  Here are some quick tips.  

  1. You need a thumb.png file for each mod.  I didn't have one, so I searched the web to find one quick.
  2. Put each separate mod in a different subdirectory in your Documents/Master Of Orion/ Mods directory.  The name of the subdirectory defaults to your mod name.  Oh, no "Ship Data" subdirectory or anything in that directory, everything in one.  You can activate or deactivate multiple mods!  :-)
  3. In the options screen enable uploading mods.
  4. The stupid Upload Mod description entry box doesn't allow pasting, commas, apostrophes, new paragraphs, etc.  So plan ahead and don't click anywhere but the input box and the upload button.  Anything else kicks you out and you have to start over again.  Very frustrating!!!  :-O
  5. You can subscribe to your mod after you upload it, it keeps them separate from the local ones with the same name.


Hope that helps.  :-)

Edited by trbeier, 02 November 2016 - 07:12 AM.

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Exoclyps #82 Posted 12 November 2016 - 12:16 PM


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Figured I'd give some feedback at a few of your other mods.


Personally I've not installed your Balanced Races Mod since I'm not a big fan of the "overflow" on the Custom Race screen and the removal of the “RP” traits. However I did take a lot of inspiration from your work when I made a minor personal Custom Race Mod.



The Traits

Food Modifications

Cybernetic. I think 10 points is a slight overkill. Perhaps it’s due to the fact that I use it in my custom race and want to avoid having to nerf myself? It wasn’t possible to make a -50% food consumption only trait?


That said, +50% pop and +25% food (12 points total) gave me twice the speed in population growth compared to Cybernetic.


Lithovore. I think you hit it on the nail here with 6 points.


Production from Population

While in earlier version it's probably worth 4 per 25% I think, considering that pollution is most likely going prevent you from fully using it a lot of the time it's fairer at 3 points.



Not sure they are worth 4/-3. Currently few advantages of taking Creative. But with your new tech tree it does give you a bit more. I'm counting them at 3/-2 myself. (9 with +50% and -5 at -25%)


Homeworld Modifications

I think there is a little to many options here. I get the reasoning for providing a lot of options, but if one was to make sure it does not overflow this would be a location to reduce a bit. I do like that you reduced the points though, makes them more on par with MoO2.


Ship Improvements

This is more of a personal preference than anything else. But I prefer that these traits would rather be parts of “RP” traits.


Command Points

I just never got the reason to add Command Points as loose traits. You made it a bit better with the reduced cost, but I still would never choose it due to how easy it is to overcome.


Take Warlord in MoO2. You’d essentially get +15-25 Ship Defense/Attack as well as the command points. Just the Ship Attack/Defense would be worth about 3 points if you wanted to get that by direct means, leaving 1 point for the Command Points reward.


A colony would give 1(0)-6 points in general which would mean that the command bonus you get from Warlord is 33 – 200% depending on your technology. And Command Points are even easier to get by in MoOCtS than in MoO2, which means you have even less of a reason to get a bonus for that.


This is why I think Command Point bonus by itself as a trait is near pointless.



This one is interesting. I went with a -10%, +10%, +20% approach on this one. One reason is that with the Marine Barracks at 10% 5% morale isn't doing it anymore. Besides 20% would equal +66% Credits, which is not that far from +50% Credits.


As for points, I went with -4, 4, 7. I decided on 7 at 20% since the last 10% of Morale will increase your income by another 25% (5/4). Furthermore, it will make Virtual Reality Network less useful as you’ll not be able to benefit as much from the 10% morale there. This essentially makes +10% morale and +25% a better option in that regard, hence I think 7 points is fair for +20%.


The Races


I think you nailed it just perfect. I got the same numbers on my personal mod.



I like how you made the Bulrathi, makes good sense. However in the current version the pollution trait is gone so that means they need something else. Personally I kept the rich homeworld trait.


There is this one issue with Bulrathi that makes it hard to match their MoO2 version since High Gravity no longer gives the “extra hit” that they can sustain. I do feel they kind of need another bonus to make more viable as “the marine race”.


But considering that currently Marine Barracks isn’t that heavily used even, I don’t know how much of a merit that would be?



Honestly haven't touched them as I use them as my custom race. But my impression is that they do not excel in Espionage as much as they should though.



I like what you did with the Humans. Essentially the only difference I made is that I gave them +10% morale since Barracks (which the bonus is supposed to let you avoid) now gives +10% in my game. That however would increase the points to 12. I like the idea though that Human can build Barracks and with the extra Morale they would be able to increase the tax to 4. This makes sense out of Democracy Trait view, as get a +50% tax bonus in MoO2. They do also make +50% from treaties in MoO2.


So removing the Trade Goods Bonus would balance things as it was never a bonus they had in MoO2 anyways:  Starting tech: government (1), Morale +10% (4), Charismatic (2), Trade treaties bonus (2), Security -20% (-2), Research +25% (3)



I completely agree with your approach on removing the starting tech since they are bad researchers, makes perfect sense. I honestly feel that +25% production wasn’t really putting them on par with what they were in MoO2 and really wanted to give them +50%.


What I came up with:

Subterranean (1), Production +50% (6), Food +50% (7), Uncreative (-25%)(-5), Security +10% (1)


This would leave them at 10 with the values I provided. However your Food 50% is 8, but then again your Subterranean is 0, so that adds up.



I've yet to touch them. But they do indeed get a few too many points, so something had to be done.



I like what you came up with for them, and it is pretty much identical to what I did on my end.


All I can say here is that I really wish there was a way to make it so that you start on your Uber Planet. Would make those traits way more interesting.



These where hard for me with both Creative and Artifacts World costing less, since I really wanted them to have Low G-World to keep them in the spirit of MoO2.

I gave them: Technologist (2), Creative (+50%)(9), Low G-World (-4), Large Homeworld (2). As you can see this was with a Large Homeworld at 2, which with your balance would leave them at 9 points since it’s 1.


This would have been less of a problem if they would have made things like Artifact World +1 to each cell rather than a +2 flat bonus. I wonder if it is possible to rebalance this? It would be an awesome and fun to find bonus if it was +1 to each cell. That goes for all the various resources.


I suppose though at your Creative base bonus at 4 it does add up to 10 points. But the Tech Tree would need to have more branches for it to be worth that imo.



I like your approach with removing the tech for them since they are bad at researching.  I think the version I came up with for them is identical to yours.



Lovely race. I used to love them in MoO2 because I used to play as Lithovore, and what's not better than another Lithovore as neighbor for quick expansion? :D


Since the pollution trait is no longer present they are of course a bit outdated, which I’m sure you already fixed in some way, but figured I’d share my approach.


First, I like that you increased the general lithovore population growth, haven’t had the chance to try it out yet (installed that yaml xD) but I like the looks of it.


Personally I went with Rich Homeworld over Population Growth since to me it makes sense that there would be a lot of minerals where they come from, considering the minerals kind of caused their existence. Besides, a general population growth bonus to a race that is supposed to have a negative growth bonus (MoO2) feels somewhat out of place.  


The suggested race would be:
Lithovore (6), Lava Breather (-2), Repulsive (uncharismatic?) (-2), High G-Word (4), HW: Huge (2), HW: Rich (2). A total of 10. I get that you made Uncharismatic a -1 trait. So would have 1 point too much here though.



I kind of wanted to see Terran more extreme. They are an extreme race after all.


With the morale changes I went with it, they getting +20% was a given. Also I wanted to boost their strategic trait. I also kind of wanted to give reference to the culling and purges that’s part of their lore. To top it all I made them repulsive, they do fit very well into that I think.


My thoughts were something along the lines of this:

Tech: Engineering(1), +40% Command Points (3), -40% Ship Cost(5), +20% morale (7), -25% pop (-4), Repulsive (uncharismatic)(-2).


I suppose -40% Ship Cost would be 4 points and “Repulsive” -1 point at your build. But leaving uncharismatic at 1 point does make it quite a weak trait in terms of points gain imo. I would rather look into the option of making it more severe if possible.



A lot of these race suggestions are rather untested in terms of balance and are more in terms of “design”. A few hints though are taken from my playtroughs. An earlier build of Sakkra was too strong so I nerfed them (they had to many points) to what you had pretty much. But my point is, see it more of an opinion there than a “this is best” when it comes to the races.

Spud_Dastardly #83 Posted 12 November 2016 - 01:19 PM

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That's quite the list!  I'll try to address each of your points.

  • Cybernetic:  Food consumption -50% is strictly better than +50% food from population because the consumption bonus also gets extra benefits from food buildings unlike the food production one.  That means if food output +50% is worth 8, then cybernetic is at least 8.  If you add in the automatic ship repair (which I bumped up to 10% per turn), then that gets you to 10 points.  I'm not sure you factored in the ship repair in your analysis.  However, I recognize that +50% population growth is a little better than +50% food production, and so I've reduced that bonus to +40% population growth for the same cost, and +25% is now +20%.  
  • Lithovore:  Previously 6 points was about right.  After I discovered I could change the lithovore growth rates, I more or less doubled the growth rates so lithovore races now grow as fast as normal races, except they effectively get a 50% boost to production and research from population since they no longer need farming, and their new colonies establish much faster.  You can also build colony ships much faster as a result.  I believe that 10 points is appropriate based on the new growth curve.  
  • I already reduced the production increments to 3 in my new version for precisely that reason.
  • I already changed uncreative to -2.  You're probably right about creative though, and I'll take a look at that and the Psilon build.
  • Homeworld modifications: the new mod layout separates them into categories so it's not just a giant block of them, which looks a bit better.  I'd definitely rather have a complaint of too many options than not enough options.
  • RP traits?  As in Role Playing?  Not sure what you mean here, but I want these available so you can recreate the vanilla races in the custom race screen.
  • You may be right about the command points.  I may reduce to just two options: +25% and +50% for 1 and 2 point each.  The Mrrshan and Terran could always use an extra buff anyway.
  • Morale: It sounds like you just took my traits and doubled them both in effect and points cost (except the 7).  4 is definitely the right cost for +10% when you compare it to +25% credits from population.  I feel like if you're going for +20% you might as well take unwaivering morale at that point.  -20% morale seems like it would be totally unbearable to play with.  I might keep this one as is.


  • Bulrathi: My updated version gives them biology, gravity immunity, ground combat +50%, improved marine training rate and extended barracks (combined into a 1 point trait).  Gravity immunity gives them a unique advantage, which I quite like.  
  • Darlok: Yeah I can't do anything with these guys.  The spying system in this game is lackluster.  Waiting for them to redesign it like they promised.  At least my 5x mod makes spying much easier which makes them much more effective, though the AI isn't good at exploiting that feature.
  • Human:  Yours is a good alternative build.  I actually changed the research increments to 30% increments because it wasn't quite worth 3 points and the humans and psilons weren't excelling quite as much in research as they ought to while the Sakkra were doing a little too well.  I also buffed the trade goods bonus to give 50% above base and trade goods itself now provides a base +1 BC per 1 production.  Boosted trade treaties bonus to 50% as well.
  • Klackon: In MoO2 they were +1 food, +1 prod, unification.  I guess without the uni bonus +50% prod makes sense.  I could easily restore their research from population penalty and give them the extra production.  It would suit their playstyle well.
  • Meklar: Before you said cybernetic isn't worth 10, but just look at how powerful these guys are.  They're pretty balanced in my latest build though with industrialist, cybernetic, population growth -20%.
  • Mrrshan:  There is a way to make you start on your uber planet.  You can add that biome to the homeworld biome trait or create a new trait for it based on the homeworld biome trait.  I like them with a terran homeworld though.  
  • Sakkra: As I mentioned I give them -30% research  and +40% population growth now.  With the new colony spamming AI, these guys spread like weeds and are almost always on top.  Not much else I can do.
  • Silicoid:  I really like my new build for them.  It works well with the new system.  Lithovore (10), Lava breather (-1), Uncharismatic (-1), Pop growth -20% (-4), High Gravity (0), Huge ultra rich hw (2+4 total).  The trait formally called repulsive was renamed "uncharismatic" because I enabled the real repulsive trait that doesn't let you make treaties, but it's a little buggy in terms of the UI so I didn't want to give it to one of the stock races.  Pop growth penalty keeps them at the bottom of the population rung where they should be by design without having to compromise the lithovore growth rates; their smaller population is still very competitive with research, production, and GDP.  High gravity really is a mixed bag now.  Slightly less than 1/4 of the galaxy comes out high gravity which is severely limiting, yet you get the richest and biggest planets to choose from resulting in a tall rather than wide empire.  I settled on 0 points for the cost.  Testing shows the Silicoids with this build are competitive but not over or under powered.
  • Terran:  We had a discussion about them a couple pages back.  I wanted something everyone could be happy with, and I got some complaints about some of the more "extreme" choices I made for them.  I like your build, but I'll leave these guys as is.  

No way to increase the severity of the uncharismatic trait as far as I can tell.  It's very minor and basically a free point with how easy the AI is to manipulate.  Thanks for the feedback once again!

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Exoclyps #84 Posted 12 November 2016 - 02:27 PM


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To start of with. I posted that before you released your new version, and I can tell that you've fixed a lot of the stuffs that I mentioned.

* About Cybernetic.
As far as I can tell about it is that it really shines in planets where you can't farm.

In a fresh game with 6 on farming,
a normal race gets +16 food with 4 turns for next population. Bar at at 30% per turn.
a cybernetic race gets +19 food with 3 turns for next population. Bar at 35% per turn.
a food +50% race gets +26 food with 3 turns for next population. Bar at 45% per turn.

Cybernetic lets me colonize a radiated planet, build the basic food stuffs for +4-5 food and plant 8-10 population there. Nice in a Young Galaxy game.

But if you colonize a terran planet. 1 population will give you +3.5 food as Cybernetic or +5 food with food+50% trait. This just gets inflated worse with better food production.

Cybernetic really is the middlezone between lithovore and normal eater. Makes it easier to colonize crappy biodomes, but on decent ones it doesn't give much of a bonus.

Was it possible to make a trait that didn't have the repair bonus?

* Lithovore. Might have to try out the new version of it! I was a big fan in earlier games.

* Morale. Actually it's mostly what it ended up being. I feelt 5% wasn't really fitting together with 10% morale on the marine barracks and modified from there. What is the different from 20% and Unwaivering btw? More interresting options is always cool though!

* RP Traits. With RP traits I meant traits like the "Natural Pilots". Giving a naming to the combined traits that the races get. I just called it "RP Traits" for lack of better wording. However I'm actually pretty cool with the player not being able to pick them for a custom race as long as the stock race got it. So just for visuals it would be cool if we'd be able to see Sakkra "Jungle Dweller" again as well as the Klackons as "Subterraen" again and so on. All for the estestics though.

Also the reason I was interrested in seeing if you could start on your uber planet was because I kinda wanted to give it a try with giving Silicoids their Uber Planet as start planet.

* Races.
So overall I pretty much all your changes. Some are different to what I would have thought of myself but still looks cool, making me wanna try them out.

- Bulrathi. I gave them the "Extra Ground Units" trait (different name though) as well. I'd give them back Ecologist, even if it's the same trait as "Starting Technology: Biology". The reason here is that I think "Merged Traits" or my previous wording "RP Traits" looks cooler out of a story/lore feeling. That said, no need to add it back in the Custom Race Screen.

- Darklok. I suppose we just have to wait.

- Human. Yours are very close to mine. Essentially I give them more morale. I still think +10% morale for them fits better with the new marine barracks. But just a minor personal preferense. The +5% bonus won't let them increase taxes without penality, or go without the marine barracks and still get 100% like before.

- Meklar. Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that the trait isn't that good so I can use it with other good stuffs. I'll play a game or so and see how your Meklar does.

- Mrrshan. I like them. I'd give them Militarist (with engineering) instead of Engineering trait just for flavor.

- Silicoid. I'm a big fan of what you pulled of here with them. Almost identical to what I wanted to do. Will be fun to see them in action. Maybe try see if you can come up with some "bundle trait" (I think this is the 4th name I've given it!) to reduce the amount of traits in their list.

- Terran. Overall I like them actually. Just that if you give Humans +10% morale instead of +5% then Terran would end up with the same as the Humans and there we go! I suppose it's not that huge of a deal though as I'll play as neither xD

I'll get back to you with my results of my next game in terms of how they perform!

Edited by Exoclyps, 12 November 2016 - 02:29 PM.

Spud_Dastardly #85 Posted 12 November 2016 - 02:59 PM

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  • I'll take a closer look at cybernetic I guess, but I don't want to make the Meklar overpowered.  
  • Unwaivering morale is basically +100% morale.  Leave taxes at +5 BC the whole game and don't worry about it.  That's why it's 8 points.
  • I have to say that Jungle Creature, Lava breather, and subterranean combos are bugged in the mod.  For example, Lava breather most definitely says you get a volcanic home world both in game and in the yaml files, but when you actually start a game as a lava breather, you get a gaia home world for some reason.  Jungle creature says you get swamp but you get volcanic, and subterranean gives you swamp instead of arid.  It's really weird, I couldn't fix it, and I was forced to split up the trait.  I like the flavor of the names too, but we'll have to let that one go.  
  • As for the rest of the "RP" traits, the Alkari still have Natural pilots and the Darlok still have Stealth and Shapeshifters and all that, but I really don't like forcing players to pick these combo packages.  The one and only exception is Cybernetic, which is the one trait you asked me to split up.  I could take away the auto repair from cybernetic, but then it would just be food consumption -50%, and I might as well say so at that point.  I mean, you want me to give the Bulrathi "Ecologist" instead of starting tech: biology, but my concern is that it obfuscates what the trait does and doesn't add anything by renaming one trait to be a combo.  I can definitely see giving the Silicoid a bundle though to reduce the clutter, though I'm not sure which traits I should combine since I can't do lava breather.
  • Mrrshan: I might give them militarist (without the ground unit bonus) and throw in a different second trait since I'd have an extra point from making command point bonus cost less.  I'll look at it.

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Exoclyps #86 Posted 13 November 2016 - 06:55 AM


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* Cybernetic. If you still feel that it's worth 10 points. Don't sweat it to much. I really do would like a -50% food consumption trait if possible, I don't care too much about the repair.

* I suppose that is a more interesting perk than +20% morale and since it also means new planets gets more out of it I'm pretty cool with the way that one went. Still do feel that 5% morale is moot, but won't really bug into extra options and will just leave it as a matter of opinion.

* The Uberworlds traits messing up like that sounds really weird. And I really had to try it out myself. And yeah, giving Silocoids Lava Breather gave them a Gaia homeworld. However I figured I'd give it a try to fix them.

Setting Lava Breather to start with Gaia actually gives them Gaia. Setting Mrrshan to Plains Dweller with Plains Dweller only having the Uber trait actually gave them swamp. So actually after a few "swaping things around". My impression is that the "level" score is perhaps internal?


I tried to swap around the Ubers to match the numbering of the homeworld. So say Lava Eater got 1/1 in level. The result? Gaia Homeworld with Grassland.

Funny part is that the Gaia Homeworld and Grassland occupies the "slot" that used to occupy both Volcanic and Inferno. My conclusion is that something is remembered internally.

So the only way I can see fixing this is restoring both homeworld and uber to default order and just add gaia as a new option at the end. This would make it all a mess in custom race screen, so dunno what's the best option.


* I like the way you made the Custom Race Screen. It looks good and I don't actually feel a need for the bundle traits in there anymore. I do still like that the stock races gets bundles to give more of a story to what they are. Like with the Alkari being Natural Pilots. I like that kind of approach. But yet again, I suppose this is another nitpickidy of mine since it won't really make a real difference in the game.


Also. I liked the idea of toying with giving Terrans:
HW: Arid
HW: Large
HW: Rich

Goes more with the lore that they ended up on an arid planet I think it said. And with it being both Large and Rich it won't really hurt them that bad.

Edited by Exoclyps, 13 November 2016 - 07:19 AM.

Spud_Dastardly #87 Posted 13 November 2016 - 01:50 PM

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Yeah we discussed giving the Terrans an Arid homeworld a while back and, as we found out with the Mrrshan, it just kills their population growth.  The AI does not know how to deal with it at all.  I really wanted to give them an arid HW too.  

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Spud_Dastardly #88 Posted 14 November 2016 - 02:15 PM

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Turns out I can't give Mrrshan Militarists because it gives them the improved marine training rate trait even if I tell it not to.

Edit: I have to drop Natural Pilots for the Alkari too because it's giving them Beam Attack no matter what.

Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 15 November 2016 - 06:48 AM.

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Exoclyps #89 Posted 15 November 2016 - 03:02 PM


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Figured I'd drop my Race Balance feedback in here.

Traits Overall.
Nothing huge, but Creative got cheaper which is nice. Command Points cost looks a lot more balanced now IMO. And I like that we're getting a negative as well. Also noticed that you made High Gravity more expensive, will see how that works out, but considering normal was -25% I think it's fair.

* Alkari. I see they lost there Natural Pilots bundle. A bit of a shame. But perhaps it got bugged? Wouldn't be surprised.
* Klackon. I see you gave them +50% production as well as the Bundle "Uncreative". I like that!
* Mrrshan. Is it me, or did they get 11 points? I suppose that the militarist thingy can't be helped in the current version.
* Silicoid. They had it pretty rough last game I played, and that was with Ultra Rich. So we'll see how they serve this time.
* Terran. I like their improvements, with cheaper Strategists giving them Mineral Rich is an interesting approach! One that's needed I think as they where on the lower end my last game.

* Psilon. Creative got bundled! Lovely! :D Personally I'd like to see an approach where they have Low Gravity. They should make a "Research Treaties Bonus" trait!

Spud_Dastardly #90 Posted 16 November 2016 - 02:06 AM

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  • I got some complaints that high G might be worth more than 0 points, so I bumped it up.  I was going to make it 1 point, but I couldn't think of a way to take just 1 point off the Silicoid build.  Going from ultra rich on the Silicoids to rich hurts them a little, but I think they'll be fine.  Sometimes they do really well and sometimes they don't; I think it depends on the planets they start near.
  • I mentioned with natural pilots that it kept giving them beam attack no matter what I did, so I had to take it away.  Oh well.
  • The Mrrshan only have 10 points: Command points +20% (1), beam attack +60% (3), large hw (1), rich hw (2), grassland uber (2), engineering (1).
  • I could make the Psilons low g, but I wouldn't know what other traits to give them.  They weren't low g in MoO2.  I was kind of saving that for the Gnolams when they come out.

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Exoclyps #91 Posted 16 November 2016 - 05:12 AM


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* Gravity. Yeah. Normal Gravity people get 50% penalty in High-G while High-G only get 25% in normal-G. I tried to change it so it was 25% all around, with no luck. Seems that setting isn't working either in Globals.yaml. The changing the "BONUS_MIN" would change the 25% penalty, but changing "BONUS_HIGH" did nothing.

* Silicoids. Another thing that effects them I think is the type of galaxy you play in. They'd serve a lot better in a Young Galaxy than in an Old Galaxy due to mineral richness. One way to improve on that would to reduce the difference in lithovoreLifePointProduction on the various mineral richness levels.

* Bundle Traits. My understanding is that for some reason all these Bundle Traits reverts to vanilla no matter what you do with them after the hotfix. Same reason you get the messed up Jungle Creatures and the likes I'd imagine. Will have to wait for another fix for that. Overall I do think things got improved on that end!

* Mrrshan. Then it was just me. Not sure where I counted wrong, might have mistaken Beam Attack for Beam Defense in points and counted that one as 4. Ignore my ranting there :D

* Psilons. Might be because I got the 1.4 patch (semi-official), but in my MoO2 game they are Low Gravity. I think they always where thou'. What to give them in return has always been a problem for me. Had that from when I first started to mess with the races. I really wish they would make the Planet Resources give +1 to each cell instead of a flat +2 bonus, but I'd imagine that would never happen. This way we could make Artifacts cost more and be able to perhaps solve the issue. I toyed with the idea of giving them Gaia and some more starting tech. Would probably hurt them in more advanced games though. The idea would be that they got fortunate with their homeworld and starts a bit ahead of others, but have a hard time living on other planets.


* Speaking of Gravity. Perhaps changing the description from "This race is not effected by..." to "This race is adapted to ..." as the current description can be a little misleading. Leftovers from when they were pure bonus traits I'd imagine. The All option would sound cooler as something like "This race can live in any gravity without penalty.", but changing that is purely cosmetic.



* Pollution Tolerance. Saw that you reduced it to 6 points, it's in the right direction, but I'm unsure if it's worth 6 points even. After all, all it really does is let you ignore pollution for a short time, the biome will crash eventually either way. Personally I made it 3 points and even then I didn't really feel like I wanted it. One thing you could do btw, is to move Pollution Tolerance together with the other Special Abilities together with Lithovore and Cybernetic, it does after all co-relate to food consumption, just like those traits. Would make the layout more even and even let you add for example a -20% Beam Attack for -1 point and still a "good looking layout".

Edited by Exoclyps, 16 November 2016 - 06:04 AM.

Spud_Dastardly #92 Posted 16 November 2016 - 05:57 AM

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My bad, the psilons are low gravity in MoO2.  I always played custom races in MoO2 and never payed the vanilla ones much mind.  Well I'll see how I can work it in, but I'm still not sure what I can do to boost their effectiveness.  I was thinking of boosting all of the planetary specials to +5 instead of +2, including artifacts, and then I would make artifacts cost +2.  Gaia home world is an interesting idea.  It would be cool to give that to a race.  Giving them Government as a starting tech seems natural since they'd get research labs.   Not sure about other traits though.  Maybe a morale bonus?  

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Exoclyps #93 Posted 16 November 2016 - 10:25 AM


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Sounds like a great idea on the resources, would for sure make them more interesting, and it'd help on giving points to the Psilons.


I had the thoughts of giving them diplomatic bonuses as they always tend to stay out of conflict, so with a boost there it'd help. But then I saw Unsympathetic and wasn't sure. I think that Government makes sense.


On another note. I had an idea how to make Arid Homeworld work! So I was recently watching some videos Mass Effect and realized that the Drell kind of lived on an Arid world and they had no issues getting food, so I started thinking that they must have adapted their farming to the world they where living on. After a while it hit me!

- The game lets you give races a tech by trait.

- You can add/remove buildings for the start.

- You can restrict buildings to a certain biome.

So would it not be possible to give the Arid homeworld people a tech that lets them build a cheap farming building that increase food output on an Arid world? Like a starting version of Subterranean Farms but only for Arid. After living so long on Arid worlds they have learned how to proper farm it. This could make things really interesting!


Oh, my, this is so exciting. There is a lot of unused buildings that can be used. Like this above would be "Arid Farmers" as a "Starting Tech". Another one could be like "Stargazers" using the "Radiotelescopic Observatory". The description could be that the race looks to the stars for answers or something, and it'd give a Research Cell +1.

Edited by Exoclyps, 16 November 2016 - 10:35 AM.

Spud_Dastardly #94 Posted 16 November 2016 - 11:16 AM

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Neat idea.  I could add all kinds of buildings like that.  The thing is, just because it's restricted to being built on an arid doesn't mean it won't show up on other biomes if I put it as a starting building.  It might start every biome with that regardless of whether it's supposed to be buildable there.  I'll have to test it.

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Exoclyps #95 Posted 16 November 2016 - 11:52 AM


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So I did a quick test. Added Fungal as starting building. Added restriction Arid (afterwards figured I could have tested on Volcanic). And it shows up on both Arid world and Terran world races. So yeah, you're right, it's not restricted, which kinda sucks.


But even without adding it on the planet it would probably fix the issue as I can't imagine the AI not building it if it's near free.

Exoclyps #96 Posted 21 November 2016 - 03:24 AM


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I think I accidentally found a quite overpowered race setup.


So I wanted to give Psilons low G-World to make them more on par with MoO2.

To give them some plus points I gave them a buffed artifact homeworld and gaia resulting in this setup:
Technologist, 3

Creative, 9

HW: Low Gravity, -5

HW: Large, 1

HW: Gaia, 2


And to tell you... things exploded. My first game with them they outdid Sakkra and Meklars without issues.

Do keep in mind that I overall increased tech cost by 60% and reduced building cost for resource related buildings with about 35% to make the game more interesting in my eyes.

I do not think that it does effect things. I'm also playing Huge, Young Galaxy.


My 2nd game where I gave myself Low-G, Huge and Gaia to see it first hand resulted in this:





Overall they didn't perform as intensely my 2nd game with them as much as their first, but they had some intense start, which after some time stopped since I imagine they stopped expanding.

Of course giving an AI this setup is a no go, and I'll be doing something else with them after this, but somewhere along the lines this setup provides to much for the points and might need to be looked into.

Edited by Exoclyps, 21 November 2016 - 03:25 AM.

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