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Spud_Dastardly #21 Posted 04 October 2016 - 12:53 PM

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It looks like my tech tree mod no longer functions properly with 49.5.  My saved game worked fine with it, but when I started a new game, the tech tree would no longer load.  As soon as I can get an updated yaml file for it, I'll redo it.  Can anyone else confirm this issue?

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Sevyc #22 Posted 04 October 2016 - 03:18 PM

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I won't be home for several hours to test this, but if you can keep us posted on what you find out needs to be re-done for these mods, I'd appreciate it.  I've got my own little set of mods I've been playing around with, and I'm a little bummed to hear that this new patch has likely broken them.

 



Summon3r #23 Posted 04 October 2016 - 04:01 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 04 October 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

It looks like my tech tree mod no longer functions properly with 49.5.  My saved game worked fine with it, but when I started a new game, the tech tree would no longer load.  As soon as I can get an updated yaml file for it, I'll redo it.  Can anyone else confirm this issue?

 

working fine on my end, just started a new game real quick to see and all your mods were there in the tech tree

Edited by Summon3r, 04 October 2016 - 04:02 PM.


Spud_Dastardly #24 Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:39 AM

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Thanks for testing Summon3r.  After more experimentation, I discovered the tech tree only breaks on my mod if you open master of orion then start a new game set to very fast research speed.  You have to have not loaded a game previously in your play session in order for this to happen.  I verified the glitch doesn't happen without the mod or using unaltered yaml files.  I honestly have no idea why setting it to very fast would break the tech tree, so for now we may just have to accept not being able to use my mod on very fast research.  Can anyone else confirm this?

 

Update: I experimented with changing the Very Fast research speed setting.  Normally it's set to 50% (as in techs take half as long to research), and that breaks the tree for me.  If I set it to 50.0001% or 49.9999% or any other percentage that I tested, it works just fine.  I have no idea why.  If someone else could confirm that this bug happens for them, I'll include the ResearchSpeeds.yaml with the next mod update in order to fix the bug.


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AHSOG #25 Posted 06 October 2016 - 01:31 PM

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Here are a couple ideas I'd like to see added:

 

- Star Gates (upgrade from Jump Gates) - Allow 1-turn movement between systems

- Planet Replication (addition to Gas-Giant Conversion) - Allow a planet to be built in system (with no planets, or existing planets), using energy to matter replication technology.  Even if the result is a Small world, it would still make empty systems useful.

- Cloaked Wormhole Mines - Mine the entrance to a wormhole to prevent other races from using it (essentially a military outpost to fortify wormholes, just like star lanes.

- Time Warp Facilitator - Allows ships to move twice a turn on the galactic map (vs the MoO2 version of moving twice during battles)



EmperorFredd #26 Posted 06 October 2016 - 05:21 PM

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I like the lack of instant movement.  It adds a strategic element.  I do think an Advanced Jump Gates tech that halves the travel time would be good, but I think instant movement gives a human intelligence too much of an advantage over an AI.

Spud_Dastardly #27 Posted 06 October 2016 - 05:51 PM

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View PostAHSOG, on 06 October 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Here are a couple ideas I'd like to see added:

 

- Star Gates (upgrade from Jump Gates) - Allow 1-turn movement between systems

- Planet Replication (addition to Gas-Giant Conversion) - Allow a planet to be built in system (with no planets, or existing planets), using energy to matter replication technology.  Even if the result is a Small world, it would still make empty systems useful.

- Cloaked Wormhole Mines - Mine the entrance to a wormhole to prevent other races from using it (essentially a military outpost to fortify wormholes, just like star lanes.

- Time Warp Facilitator - Allows ships to move twice a turn on the galactic map (vs the MoO2 version of moving twice during battles)

 

Those are some great ideas.  Unfortunately with the yaml modding currently available, I don't think I could implement these technologies.  

  • The jump gate speed bonus is a global parameter, not set by the jump gate technology itself, though I think my transdimensional drive tech that I added is fast enough to allow you to travel between any two jump gate systems in one, or at most 2 turns.  
  • There is currently no way to add planets after the galaxy has been generated.  
  • So basically you're talking about adding a military outpost type structure for a wormhole. As far as I can tell, the game has no command programmed in to allow building structures on wormholes.  I could always make you able to build advanced military outposts on any star lane (not just your own system) so that you could build them on nodes connected to wormholes.
  • There's no way currently to add to the number of moves a ship has per turn.  Interestingly there is a time warp facilitator tech in the techapps yaml which is currently disabled.  The description says is slows down incoming projectiles, presumably allowing you to dodge them.  I haven't tested it, but it probably doesn't work properly.

You might want to make these suggestions on the general gameplay balance thread so that the devs can take a look at them.


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Spud_Dastardly #28 Posted 11 October 2016 - 12:26 PM

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New update: version 2.2.

 

After receiving much feedback on the Steam forums that money was still too tight mid game, I reduced the maintenance cost of several buildings.  Hopefully I didn't totally unbalance mid game income by doing so.  Let me know if I did.  I also fixed the bug where the tech tree wouldn't load if you start a game on very fast research speed.


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diehardtwinsfan #29 Posted 12 October 2016 - 02:49 PM

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Just a nit to pick, but wouldn't it make more sense for the Silicoids to move from barren to inferno than from Terran to inferno?  Given they don't deal with pollution, I'd think it makes more sense for their entire biome needs be reversed from everyone else.  A Gaia/Terran/Ocean would be red biomes, barren would be green, etc.

Archont4000 #30 Posted 12 October 2016 - 03:43 PM

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I find no reason in moving from Terran to Inferno since I will loose pop. Pollution resistance benefit is not that high

Spud_Dastardly #31 Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:04 PM

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View Postdiehardtwinsfan, on 12 October 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Just a nit to pick, but wouldn't it make more sense for the Silicoids to move from barren to inferno than from Terran to inferno?  Given they don't deal with pollution, I'd think it makes more sense for their entire biome needs be reversed from everyone else.  A Gaia/Terran/Ocean would be red biomes, barren would be green, etc.

 

The idea was that any race with an uber biome should be able to eventually develop any planet into their uber planet, though giving them the ability to transform any biome directly would be overpowered. Because transforming a gaia to uber is rather useless, my compromise was to give each uber planet race the ability to turn terrans into ubers so that you could through successive terraforming turn any non-gaia into an uber planet.  From a conceptual standpoint, yes it would make more sense to have barrens convert to inferno.  However, the only way to convert a planet to barren is to let it degrade from pollution: a process which results in losing population as you hit your population cap.  It would be a different story if lithovore races maintained their population cap on any biome as they should, but I have no way change it so their population cap is biome invariant.  Perhaps as a compromise, I could add the ability to transform barrens directly in addition to the ability to transform terrans.

View PostArchont4000, on 12 October 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

I find no reason in moving from Terran to Inferno since I will loose pop. Pollution resistance benefit is not that high

 

I didn't realize that infernos have a lower population cap than terrans.  It's been a while since I played with the Silicoids.  Do you happen to know what the exact numbers are on population caps for a terran vs an inferno?  I will look into increasing the population cap on an inferno to match that of gaia worlds in order to make that uber planet transformation more valuable.

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diehardtwinsfan #32 Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:15 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 12 October 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

The idea was that any race with an uber biome should be able to eventually develop any planet into their uber planet, though giving them the ability to transform any biome directly would be overpowered. Because transforming a gaia to uber is rather useless, my compromise was to give each uber planet race the ability to turn terrans into ubers so that you could through successive terraforming turn any non-gaia into an uber planet.  From a conceptual standpoint, yes it would make more sense to have barrens convert to inferno.  However, the only way to convert a planet to barren is to let it degrade from pollution: a process which results in losing population as you hit your population cap.  It would be a different story if lithovore races maintained their population cap on any biome as they should, but I have no way change it so their population cap is biome invariant.  Perhaps as a compromise, I could add the ability to transform barrens directly in addition to the ability to transform terrans.

 

I didn't realize that infernos have a lower population cap than terrans.  It's been a while since I played with the Silicoids.  Do you happen to know what the exact numbers are on population caps for a terran vs an inferno?  I will look into increasing the population cap on an inferno to match that of gaia worlds in order to make that uber planet transformation more valuable.

 

I noticed this in my most recent game after assimilating the entire Silicoid race.  That whole thing needs rethinking by the devs if it cannot be fixed it in a mod.  I'd argue that their pop should be tied only to planet size and not biome given that they can live in any biome.  I'd give them a total pop boost for inferno planets too.  They don't have to invest in terraforming at this point and can pretty much pollute a biome to barren.  Then they can de-terraform to volcano.  I don't think there would be a need to boost their growth rates with these changes as they no longer need to build any pollution tech, farming tech, or terraforming tech... just defenses, building, and research. 

trbeier #33 Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:34 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 12 October 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

 

The idea was that any race with an uber biome should be able to eventually develop any planet into their uber planet, though giving them the ability to transform any biome directly would be overpowered. Because transforming a gaia to uber is rather useless, my compromise was to give each uber planet race the ability to turn terrans into ubers so that you could through successive terraforming turn any non-gaia into an uber planet.  From a conceptual standpoint, yes it would make more sense to have barrens convert to inferno.  However, the only way to convert a planet to barren is to let it degrade from pollution: a process which results in losing population as you hit your population cap.  It would be a different story if lithovore races maintained their population cap on any biome as they should, but I have no way change it so their population cap is biome invariant.  Perhaps as a compromise, I could add the ability to transform barrens directly in addition to the ability to transform terrans.

 

I didn't realize that infernos have a lower population cap than terrans.  It's been a while since I played with the Silicoids.  Do you happen to know what the exact numbers are on population caps for a terran vs an inferno?  I will look into increasing the population cap on an inferno to match that of gaia worlds in order to make that uber planet transformation more valuable.

 

Personally, I find no benefit to the current Uber planets and avoid them like the plague.  To start on a Arid or Volcanic is way too much of a handicap, that you paid how many points for?  At best it should not cost any points, because even though you can transform them to Grasslands or Inferno in about 100 turns (after researching Uber, and then transforming), the damage is done.  I don't see any benefit here and consider it a handicap.  Maybe it should be negative points.
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Spud_Dastardly #34 Posted 13 October 2016 - 12:08 AM

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View Posttrbeier, on 12 October 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

 

Personally, I find no benefit to the current Uber planets and avoid them like the plague.  To start on a Arid or Volcanic is way too much of a handicap, that you paid how many points for?  At best it should not cost any points, because even though you can transform them to Grasslands or Inferno in about 100 turns (after researching Uber, and then transforming), the damage is done.  I don't see any benefit here and consider it a handicap.  Maybe it should be negative points.

 

I agree, and I did adjust the point costs accordingly in my balanced races mod with lava breather worth -1.  Ideally, plains dweller for example should treat an arid like a terran for food production and max population; it's too bad I can't change that with a mod.  What I can do at least is make uber biomes slightly better than gaias which would make them more worth it.

Edit: seems my post got a little messed up there.


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 14 October 2016 - 06:36 AM.

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Archont4000 #35 Posted 13 October 2016 - 02:57 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 12 October 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

I didn't realize that infernos have a lower population cap than terrans.  It's been a while since I played with the Silicoids.  Do you happen to know what the exact numbers are on population caps for a terran vs an inferno?  I will look into increasing the population cap on an inferno to match that of gaia worlds in order to make that uber planet transformation more valuable.

 

Hi Spud,

 

I have not yet researched Advanced City Planning, so here are the numbers for Terran (40 pollution tolerance) vs Inferno (100 pollution tolerance) (no Gaia yet):

small 10 pop (5 production slots) vs 6 pop (6 production slots)

medium 13 pop (5 production slots) vs 8 pop (8 production slots) 

large 16 pop (7 production slots)  vs 10 pop (10 production slots)  

huge 19 pop (9 production slots)  vs 12 pop (12 production slots)  

 



Spud_Dastardly #36 Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:23 PM

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View PostArchont4000, on 13 October 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

 

Hi Spud,

 

I have not yet researched Advanced City Planning, so here are the numbers for Terran (40 pollution tolerance) vs Inferno (100 pollution tolerance) (no Gaia yet):

small 10 pop (5 production slots) vs 6 pop (6 production slots)

medium 13 pop (5 production slots) vs 8 pop (8 production slots) 

large 16 pop (7 production slots)  vs 10 pop (10 production slots)  

huge 19 pop (9 production slots)  vs 12 pop (12 production slots)  

 

 

Thanks.  It's clear now that max population is equal to the number of production slots plus the number of farming slots.  I either need to find a way to increase the number of production slots on an inferno world or I need to enable farming.  It might be possible to enable the farming slots while having them produce 0 food, since those are separate settings.

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EmperorFredd #37 Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:28 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 13 October 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

 

Thanks.  It's clear now that max population is equal to the number of production slots plus the number of farming slots.  I either need to find a way to increase the number of production slots on an inferno world or I need to enable farming.  It might be possible to enable the farming slots while having them produce 0 food, since those are separate settings.

 

That is very likely to lead to the AI putting people on farming.  AIs are stupid that way.

Spud_Dastardly #38 Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:30 PM

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View PostEmperorFredd, on 13 October 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

 

That is very likely to lead to the AI putting people on farming.  AIs are stupid that way.

 

I think the Silicoid AI is programmed not to farm on any planet, so it shouldn't be an issue since they are the only AI that would get infernos.

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trbeier #39 Posted 13 October 2016 - 07:28 PM

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Did you see:  http://moocts.com/ar...master-of-orion
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diehardtwinsfan #40 Posted 13 October 2016 - 08:20 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 13 October 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

 

I think the Silicoid AI is programmed not to farm on any planet, so it shouldn't be an issue since they are the only AI that would get infernos.

 

 

I don't think this is true. For the most part they don't, but I've found the occasional worker there on planets I conquer.







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