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Spud_Dastardly #41 Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:40 AM

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View Posttrbeier, on 13 October 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

 

Awesome :D  I'm glad people are taking notice!

View Postdiehardtwinsfan, on 13 October 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

 

 

I don't think this is true. For the most part they don't, but I've found the occasional worker there on planets I conquer.

 

Well, that's something the developers should look at.  I know when the colony focus is set to balanced, they avoid farming, but when set to production, they still split extra workers between farming and research.  I can't help the AI being dumb. If I can avoid enabling farming then I will.

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diehardtwinsfan #42 Posted 14 October 2016 - 08:15 PM

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yeah, I get that.  It's not a common thing, but every so often I conquer a Sillicoid planet and find the occasional pop dedicated to farming.  And yes, stupid AI if that's what they're doing.

Spud_Dastardly #43 Posted 29 October 2016 - 02:25 PM

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New update posted.  This one restores the maintenance costs to their normal level, but now space port gives +1 BC per population.  I'm still testing the money balance.  It also tweaks the end game techs and makes a couple of slight changes to work better with my new galaxy setup mod.

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Roodney_Felix_Borges #44 Posted 04 November 2016 - 01:43 PM

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Could you create a version of this mod with only the Volcanic Cooling ability? That's the only thing that I'm after, but I can't find it alone...

 

Edit: Nevermind, I found out how easy it is to mod the files. I customized them for my use. Thank you for the awesome mod, man! Nice work!


Edited by Roodney_Felix_Borges, 04 November 2016 - 11:51 PM.


Exoclyps #45 Posted 09 November 2016 - 11:22 AM

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Overall I really like the look of this mod. I just got one beef with it: the new super-tech. If a version without that was possible, that would be awesome.

 

Also, a few things that I modified myself so far:
Marine Barracks - Increased Morale to 10%. I ended up never building it, and 80% of planets I invaded didn't have it either, ruining the ground combat aspect.

Holo Simulator - Reduced Morale Bonus to 10% to balance it with Marine Barracks. Reduced Cost to 120 and Maintenance to 2 to balance.

 

Astro University - No longer System Unique. I actually avoided building this most of the times due to the risk of missing out on the bonus. And quite frankly I felt very limited to research buildings most of the time.

Galactic Cybernet  - Changed to System Unique. For people not creative, the other one was a non-brainer. Made this more of a worthwhile choice.

 

Advanced Colony Ship - Reduced Cost to 360. Was to expensive to ever build for me. 200 for hull costs and 160 for extra structure cost.

 

 

Also Modified a few globals and some planets stuffs, mostly to reduce terraform costs. But not sure it fits in here.

 

Small funny thing I noticed when checking your mod out. It reverts the changes to the pollution reduction to previous version. Which is something I kinda wanted but didn't realize was possible this simple xD

Also noticed a bug. The "technode_galactic_networking" have "branches:" twice. Which makes the later branch unavailable.


Edited by Exoclyps, 09 November 2016 - 02:06 PM.


Exoclyps #46 Posted 09 November 2016 - 04:46 PM

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So I tried to recreate MoO2's approach for miniaturization. In theory I should be able to also miniaturize various equipment, like shields and even the Stellar Converter. I however ended up getting issues with the naming of things, editing the csv file seems to bust it for me so can't really do things the way I wanted to.

 

Wanted to go down with this kind of setup:

                  Construction   Power     Computers   Physics   Force-Fields
Hyper-Advanced Physics   Physics Beams Cannons     Fast Missile Racks   Interphased Drive   Moleculartronic Computer Plasma Web Class VII Shield
Hyper-Advanced Force Fields   Force Fields       Automated Repair Unit Augmented Engine   Structural Analyzer    Stellar Converter Wide Area Jammer
Hyper-Advanced Chemistry   Missiles Torpedoes     Heavy Armor   Hyper X-Capacitor   Rangemaster Targeting Unit Battle Scanner ECM Jammer
Hyper-Advanced Engineering   Construction Computers   Battle Pods   Energy Absorber   Achilles Targeting Unit     Displacement Device
Hyper-Advanced Power    Power Bombs       Reinforced Hull   High Energy Focus   Dauntless Guidance System     Warp Dissipater
                        Shield Capacitor   Scanner Beacon       Hard Shields
                                        Multi-Wave ECM Jammer
                                        Lighting Field
                                        Pulsar
                                        Cloaking Device
                                        Sub-Space Teleporter
                                        Phasing Cloak
                                        Multi-Phased Shields

 

This way you could reduce space used in various locations, just like in MoO2.

 

Oh, another thing that I did notice was that Battle Pods actually takes up 3.55% to 11.7% of your pre-buffed space depending on size. A quick calculation shows that a frigate actually only gets a 10% space increase. Something that one might wanna do something about.



Spud_Dastardly #47 Posted 10 November 2016 - 02:23 AM

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Thanks for your feedback Exoclyps.  It never occurred to me I could design miniaturizations for ship modules, and I think that's a really good idea.  I like some of your minor changes in your first post too and will definitely look at those, though I thought Galactic Cybernet gave you an empire wide boost to research already; is that not the case?  

 

I want to avoid posting more than one version of the mod if possible.  Is there something specific about the end game tech that you have a problem with?  If it's too unbalanced I can always adjust that.

 

The old pollution reduction doesn't work properly with the new system.  I had to update my mod to be compatible with the new system, but I'm waiting on a hotfix from the devs before I upload it because the new modding system is bugged.


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Exoclyps #48 Posted 10 November 2016 - 07:36 AM

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In all honesty, I've yet to actually try it in reality. But seeing as the weapon miniatures effects things provided in "ShipModules.yaml" and the only real difference is in the "slot", I figured why not?

 

And yeah, it's not the case, my impression is that it did in an earlier build, but currently it does not, which makes it extremely underwhelming.

 

I kinda get that you wanna avoid multiple options. My biggest beef with them is that it they are giving way to strong bonuses.
The command center would more than double my current command points and probably be close to doubling it once I reach the tech. Perhaps a +% bonus would be better?

The energy harvester provides pretty much the same amount of production as my best system combined.

Instant Gaia seems a bit weird to be honest. I get the trans-dimensional thingy. Maybe just the "swap out" is what's not working for me. I suppose that a "faster transformation" kind of approach could work.

 

And while I kinda like the new Armor, Shield and Engine they kinda takes away some of the benefits of being Creative as it partly removes the decision when otherwise choosing the current best ones.

True that it'd take you quite some extra time before you get the best if you do choose the "other" option in the current best ones, but still, it does mean that you can get the best of both worlds in the long run.

 

Actually never tried the old pollution reduction. Just thought it looked good on paper, a shame that it doesn't work. Will revert to my previous changes I made there then where the Toxic Processor gives 10 reduction and Pollution Processor gives 15.



Rhudaur83 #49 Posted 10 November 2016 - 12:55 PM

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Spud, great work!

 

I did want to ask, or see if there would be interest, that if an enemy empire spying efforts of inciting to riot could cause a civil war...that might be too much to accomplish, but diffently something interesting to happen. 

 

I was thinking if a successful couple of spying missions on different colonies had each planet revolting at the same time, there might be a chance to revolt....

 

Of course that would require AI and other things to be developed or not....I'm not much of a modder, but enjoy playing modified games.

 

Keep up the good work!



Spud_Dastardly #50 Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:53 PM

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Exoclyps, I can certainly reduce the bonuses from the end game techs.  I had already planned to reduce the command point bonus.  Maybe just +100 production would be more appropriate for the energy harvester.  I'd rather keep the instant gaia as is, though I am planning to raise the production cost a bit.

 

I could always make you have to choose between the ultimate armor and shield.  I could add in a new computer and make you have to choose between the drive and computer as well, which would give creative its advantage again.  Maybe I could even make the interdimensional energy harvester and galactic command center into a choice tech so you only get one.  

 

This will all take quite a bit of effort and might not make it into my next build depending on when the upcoming hotfix is released, but I think your suggestions will improve the end game tech overall.

 

View PostRhudaur83, on 10 November 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

Spud, great work!

 

I did want to ask, or see if there would be interest, that if an enemy empire spying efforts of inciting to riot could cause a civil war...that might be too much to accomplish, but diffently something interesting to happen. 

 

I was thinking if a successful couple of spying missions on different colonies had each planet revolting at the same time, there might be a chance to revolt....

 

Of course that would require AI and other things to be developed or not....I'm not much of a modder, but enjoy playing modified games.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Thanks!  Unfortunately I can't create new core gameplay mechanics like that with the current modding infrastructure.  Maybe something like that will be possible in the future.

 

 


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Exoclyps #51 Posted 10 November 2016 - 11:47 PM

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Reducing the production to 100 would certainly make it more balanced. Considering my huge ultra rich Gaia planet produces 92 so putting it on par with that would make it feel more fair. Perhaps add a 100 pollution reduction unless you done that already. Also I suppose reducing the maintenance cost to say 50 would be quite fair as well.

As for the command center, say +25% would be cool in my mind, but I suppose a reduced flat bonus could work too.

Yeah, adding having to choose between the armor and shield would balance it out in concern with Creative, I like that.

While doing the same for the harvester and the command center would add to that feeling in a nice way I do not feel as much concern about it as it doesn't replace previous technology. Personally I'd always end up with the harvester I think. It would however make creative more worth the points.

As far as I can tell, making a tech a choice tech should just be a matter of adding a simple line? Maybe you reffered to something else.

Spud_Dastardly #52 Posted 11 November 2016 - 02:05 AM

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I meant adding all of the miniaturizations, making names for the in the .csv, testing them, and rearranging the tech tree will take some time.

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Spud_Dastardly #53 Posted 11 November 2016 - 11:32 AM

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Okay, I didn't get a bunch of work done that I probably should have and did the modding work instead.  Here's what I came up with for the end game tech tree:

Spoiler

I decided not to make the energy harvester/command center into a choice since I wanted 5 hyper advanced branches.  Conveniently when you exclude the modules that cost 0 space (including battle pods in my latest version, however reinforced hull and heavy armor now take a bit of space), there are precisely 30 special ship modules, so on each miniaturization branch I've got 6 techs sorted roughly (but not always due to balance) into their original MoO2 branches.  Here's what I've got:

  • Top row (construction): Bombs miniaturizations, Fighters miniaturizations, Miniaturization of heavy armor, reinforced hull, auto repair unit, ecm jammer, multiwave ecm, wide area jammer
  • Second row (power): Torpedo miniaturizations, Drives miniaturizations, mini augmented engines, energy absorber, hyper x capacitors, high energy focus, structural analyzer, battle scanner
  • Third row (chemistry): Missile mini., Armor mini., mini dauntless guidance, anti-missile rockets, fast missile racks, achilles targeting, pulsar, lightning field
  • Fourth row (fields): Cannons mini, Shields mini, mini shield capacitors, multi phased shields, warp dissipator, cloaking device, hard shields, phasing cloak
  • Bottom row (physics): Beams mini, computers mini, mini plasma web, rangemaster targeting, displacement device, subspace teleporter, black hole generator, stellar converter.

I implemented the other minor changes to various things you suggested as well except galactic cybernet which I haven't tested yet.  Galactic command I changed to a -20% reduction in command points cost for all combat ships except doom stars plus 50 extra command points. Keep in mind I had reduced space academy to just 30% but made it apply to cruisers, battleships, and titans instead of frigates and destroyers, so now you get the original 50% cost reduction for cruisers, battleships, and titans, and you get -20% total for frigates and destroyers plus a modest bonus.  

 

I'm worried that most people would choose to go along the bottom row of miniaturization for the beams and wouldn't really bother with the top row so much for the bombs and fighters miniaturization.  I'm considering adding one extra technology to the 2nd hyper advanced level on each one: in particular for construction giving an upgrade of battle pods to incentivize that row.  I'm not sure what I would add for the other rows.  What do you think?


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Exoclyps #54 Posted 11 November 2016 - 02:08 PM

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I like what I'm reading so far. Maybe give the Space Academy -20% and the Command Center -30%. Also the description on the Space Academy says that the commanders gets better at commanding "groups of certain ships", that does suggest that smaller ships are getting the bonus tbh. I do get the reasoning to why you wanted to change it though to make sure that the AI use bigger ships. Maybe adjusting the description is the easier option here.

 

I wouldn't worry to much about people only choosing one row of miniaturization. MoO2 was pretty much the same. I'd in most cases get 5 in Physics before I got anything else, and stuffs like Sociology I got after all the miniaturization rewards was reached. So most will get that first, which is only natural. Then get something else afterwards. I wouldn't give an upgrade to the Battle Pods btw. It kinda overdo things if you both increase space and reduce size of equipment.

 

Would have to see things in action to tell more, but so far pretty nice! And oh, I like the layout that you came up with. Especially how you got "defense" to go on to "fields" and like "biology" to go on to chemistry and so on. Got a nice transition to it. Just one small thing that I just noticed. Maybe consider aligning it more in terms to what the earlier tech is? Doing it upside down would probably work best.

Transdimensional Tactics - You have tactics stuffs on the top row. Physics is also in the top rows at the end tiers.
Transdimensional Defense - Shields are up high. (Armor lower though). But Fields comes after Physics in the end tiers.
Transdimensional Biology - I kinda get putting this one in the middle since it's a "single" one in the first trans tier.
Transdimensional Power - The engine and computer are provided in the bottom tiers.
Transdimensional Production - Biggest production stuffs are at the bottom rows and "Construction" is in the bottom at the end tier.

 

 

Also on another slightly less related note! I personally wanna revamp a few buildings.

Astro University: +1 to Production/Farming/Research. But putting it slightly later in the tech tree. Makes it more like MoO2 and makes it more of an exciting building imo. Just couldn't figure out "the spot" just yet.

Planetary Supercomputer: Move it to Cybertronics so you get it way earlier. Make it +5, +2 per cell. Let you have one on each planet. Maybe +2 is a little OP that early in the tree though.

Autolab move it to current Planetary Supercomputer location and give it +20. Could make it system unique with the reasoning that it's not easy to mass produce "automatic" stuff thingy.

 

These ideas probably still need quite some balancing to it, but I kinda wanted to shake things up a little. Currently not really a lot of fun stuffs to add to a planet to boost it. The Astro University I ended up feeling like "should I really build it or wait till my bigger planet can research"? But then again, I suppose I could always just scrap it.

 

But I still think a combination of Astro University + Supercomputer would make more of an interesting setup.


Edited by Exoclyps, 11 November 2016 - 02:20 PM.


Exoclyps #55 Posted 12 November 2016 - 08:32 AM

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Btw, out of curiosity. What did you think of my approach with the Marine Barracks and Holo Simulator? Personally I hope it'll make sure that the AI builds Marine Barracks more. I know I will.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention. In "Space Travel" you get a "Green, Green, Purple, Purple, Green, Purple" icon layout on the tech tree. Personally I moved freighters after space factory to make it "Green X3 and Purple X3.


Edited by Exoclyps, 12 November 2016 - 08:35 AM.


Spud_Dastardly #56 Posted 12 November 2016 - 09:15 AM

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See, now I can't unsee that green and purple thing, and it's going to drive me crazy if I don't change it.  

 

Anyway, I like your approach to the marine barracks and holo simulator.  It should help give a little more room for higher taxes early on.  You've got some good ideas in your previous post too which I'll certainly look at.  

 

With the new hotfix I was able to upload my mod to the steam workshop.  It's now available here: https://steamcommuni.../?id=797954504.  You can also get it on Nexus Mods.  I'm not sure how to actually update it though.  I can't edit it through the steam website (I can only edit the description and pictures) and I'm worried if I upload it again in game it'll just create a new copy of it.


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 12 November 2016 - 09:16 AM.

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Exoclyps #57 Posted 12 November 2016 - 01:32 PM

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Let me share with you my initial thoughts from taking a quick look in game.

 

* Trade Goods says it converts 50% of production to BC.

* Geosynchronous Warehouse says "Maintenance: 0" in the research tree. Used to not have the line at all. Not sure why that happen though. Might be due to the hotfix rather than anything else.

* I see you reverted Space Port to a flat 5 BC bonus. Did you edit maintenance cost to balance?

* I'm personally not a huge fan of moving Core Waste Dump and Deep Core Mine away from each other. I get the reasoning behind it, since pollution is quite an issue atm.

* While I kind of with you on the Pollution Cleanup on the Radiation Shields I think you're adding way too much in the later tiers. 10, 20, 30 would make more sense to me, the radiation shields are atm better than the processors together.

* To make it possible to easier run Core Waste Dump and Deep Core Mine on the same, maybe buff Atmospheric Renewer to 10 and Pollution Processor to 20, as well as removing the "Upgrade" tag to give you a total 40 with the Toxic. Add 30 from shields and you got 100 clean up on Gaia without the Core Waste Dump.

My idea here would be: All the various stuffs or the core dump as an approach to make both options valid?

* You added "Advanced Missile Base"? I like upgrades! But you should put it after the Missile Base. You can currently get the advanced without having the basic first.
* I see that you did the same with the orbital batteries as well.

 

Added up to quite a few points. Sorry :D



Spud_Dastardly #58 Posted 12 November 2016 - 01:59 PM

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  • In fact it does convert 100% as you can test in game.  It's probably an issue with the .csv file. I'll check it out.
  • It's due to the hotfix.  No big deal.
  • I just checked my yaml and it's been reverted back to the flat bonus.  How did that happen?  I must not have saved my change or something.  Thanks for catching that; this is an essential change for mid game money balance.  Do you know how to update mods in the steam workshop?  I can't find any button to do so.
  • It's necessary yes.  I hope that choosing between super computer and deep core mine presents an interesting choice at least especially with the end game tech tree on the horizon.
  • Core waste dump replaces pollution processor and atmospheric renewer, so in the vanilla version you only get core waste dump and toxic processor as cleanup techs by that stage.  In the hotfix, they bumped core waste dump up to 150, so you get a combined clean up of 155 plus the standard 30 from biome makes 185.  In mine, core waste dump is still 100 (didn't want to just kill pollution entirely at that point), but toxic processor is 10 and the shields give 10, 25, and 50.  The maximum possible is 160 plus the standard 25 from most (but not all) biomes gets you to the same 185, and pollution remains relevant into the late game and makes those shield techs much more tempting if you're big on IA or have a +production race (I never picked them before).  One big difference with mine though is that population doesn't generate pollution, which could give you quite a discount on bigger planets, which is supposed to ease the burden of pollution overall since the vanilla system is too harsh.  The hope is that if you have core waste dump and barrier shield, then pollution will be completely eliminated for you, and I just don't think 30 on the barrier would quite accomplish that for a +50% prod race running a full system IA, and I also want a player to feel good about maybe just taking the flux shield and skipping the barrier if they don't need it.
  • I still think most players would just choose the core waste dump.  100 pollution cleanup just doesn't cut it late game.  I'll do some more play testing and see if my system isn't so good after all and keep your suggestions in mind.
  • Heh, I didn't notice that you didn't need to research the basic missile base and orbital batteries first.  I agree in principle, but these seemed like perfect places to put these techs given that I moved the deep core mine and troop transports.  Then again "orbital batteries" have nothing to do with "tectonic engineering."  Cybertronics seemed lonely before.  I could move AOB to artificial intelligence.  Do you think it should be a choice tech or an always acquired one?  I like the idea of always getting the basic one but having the advanced one be a choice.  AMB I could either move to electromagnetic refraction as a choice tech or supergravity as a choice between warp dissipator, or do you think it shouldn't be a choice?

Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 12 November 2016 - 02:43 PM.

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Exoclyps #59 Posted 13 November 2016 - 05:52 AM

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* Trade Goods issue is an issue with the .csv files. Just figured I'd mention it.

* About the 0 Maintaince. Yeah, can't find anything that suggest otherwise. Really wanted to get rid of that part, but doesn't look possible.

Speaking of money. It looks like they got a hidden structure: "Centrilized Customs Dispatch" that gives +100% income on the planet. I wonder how much is salvagable. +100% is way over the top though.

Figured you was using a fresh tech yaml file and missed reaplying the change since the # was back like the original files.

* I'm really no big fan of seperating Deep Core Mine and Core Waste Dump due to how they are bundled in MoO2. However I completely understand why you feel the need to include it for all. In MoO2 you could essentially get pollution down to 12.5% without it, and that was also only a production reducion (that the Mine would make up for). This game is different. If they ever do return to % though, I'll back on that bandwagon of branching them!

That said, my aproach would probably be to keep both at Tectonic Engineering and just remove the branching.

* So I found another beef! Moleculartronic Computer is in the Artificial Consciousness, while the previous tech is actually called Moleculartronics. I'm sure you get where I'm going here. By the looks of it it's something you did on purpose.

So while I don't mind throwing a few things around, heck, wanna do it myself, I find the naming of the tech node and the techs inside of being of very high importance. I'm a nitpick for details like that.

In this case, just swaping the name for Artificial Consciousness and Moleculartronics would probably do it. Moleculartronics comes after Artifical Consciousness in MoO2 anyways. Would need to throw a few things around. Here is how I'd do it:

Artificial Consciousness
Zeon Missiles Modifications + (Cyber Security Link (30%) | Advanced Orbital Batteries)

leading to
Moleculartronics
Advanced Damage Control (15) + (Pleasure Dome | Moleculartronic Computer)

The hard part of these stuffs is that for example the unmodded "Molecular Control leading up to Moleculartronics" made sense. So maybe unlink the new AC from MC. I'll include a small picture actually.

Tectonic Engineering reversed to Deep Core Mine + Core Waste Dump.

* Planetary Supercomputer. As you can see that one was not mentioned above. This is because I want to change it to 5(or maybe 2) +1 per cell (systemUnique:False) and put it at Cybertonics. As for naming. Cybertronics and Positronics should be swaped imo. MoO2 has that order. Supercomputer was Positronics in MoO2. Outlab was Cybertronic in MoO2.

Furthermore swaping the new Cybertronics with Artificial Intelligence. Including the tech, leaving rangemaster and achiless in current.

Dang this is getting complicated.

 

Spoiler

 

In the picture I also swapped Transgenetic and Artifical Life since I wanted Artifical Life to be a requirment for Artificial Intelligence. Besides the swaped order is the order they are presented in MoO2.

* Missile Base. I noticed that in the current version (unmodded) of MoO you get Missile Base as a base tech, which means that if you revert to that it would reduce the problem of "where to put the advanced". Out of the two options I think Supergravity fits best. Would still not require the basic in your current tree though. If Missile Base would be part of the "basic stuffs you get" Astro Engineering would work as well if it wasn't for the fact it's pretty much already full.

* Astro University. I still kind of want to turn this into a +1 to all food/product/research xD

 

 

post-edit:

Just realized looking at the picture again that moving Molecular Control to y=8 would look better. Purely cosmetic though.


Edited by Exoclyps, 13 November 2016 - 05:59 AM.


Spud_Dastardly #60 Posted 13 November 2016 - 01:46 PM

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  • According tot the description in Colonystructures.csv the customs dispatch is actually supposed to boost the trade goods output of the colony not the whole income.  It's meant to double it.  Seems like an interesting building, though not that useful.
  • I really wasn't worried about the names of tech nodes when I was moving stuff around.  I know stuff is mismatched because of my changes.  Basically I moved supercomputer back to moleculartronics because many people felt it wasn't worth getting that late in the game.  Deep core mine got moved there after the new pollution changes.  I'll look at your suggestions, but I don't want to put deep core mine back with core waste dump since I don't want you to just get it for free.  The only way I could see moving deep core mine back to tectonics would be to move supercomputer there too and have it be a choice tech where you get deep core mine for free, and then I could revert the other nodes back to their defaults.  With your change though it might not be worth choosing over deep core mine, so I might have to make it stronger than that under that scenario.  Maybe +10 plus 2 per scientist like in MoO2, which would go with the change of astro university to being +1 to research/food/prod instead of +2 research.  I'd rather not swap cybernetics with positronics just for the sake of MoO2 consistency because that's really just cosmetic and requires too much switching around; new players might not like the inconsistency with the vanilla build.
  • Because I made missile bases stronger, they're too good for a base tech.  I've gotten in very early game wars and gotten crushed by those missile bases, but they're no so bad once you get tritanium armor.  Besides global dna scanner was lonely after I moved troop transports to base, so that seems like the ideal place for it.  Maybe AMB should go in subspace physics.  It could be a choice between that or subspace communications, or maybe just a freebie.  

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