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jasonwclark #121 Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:15 AM

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Ps. about the transports and Ship flag priority thing. I agree it is lame when a war fleet displays as a colony ship, transport or space factory.

 

I understand the desire to see where your transports are at a glance, but I wish some more thought had been given to alternative ways that could have been achieved.

 

For example, a simple colored dot or icon alongside the warship would have worked just as well, and could actually have provided a lot more useful info at a glance.

 

Red dot for military transport

Green dot for civil transport, or colony ship

Blue dot for space factories, or scouts 

 

Something simple like that, so you could still tell if your fleet contained any essential non combat ships.

 

But yeah, if I had to choose between seeing my Titans on the map, or some tiny space factory at the head of the armada, for sure I'd prefer to see the Titans! haha



Exoclyps #122 Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:00 PM

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Btw, together with the new Outpost, would it be possible to also include a new upgrade to the Factory? 5 turns to create a jump gate end game is an eternity xD Halving it to a rounded up 3 turns would make a great difference.

Spud_Dastardly #123 Posted 05 December 2016 - 01:52 PM

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I don't know how the AI handles victory conditions.  I haven't seen any settings for it in the yamls.  I'll try to set the flags so the biggest warship has the priority.  

 

I guess I could add a space factory upgrade.  Without an upgrade, advanced jump gates take 10 turns and hyper advanced military outposts would take 15.  

 

Some goods news.  I discovered I could add the Restricted To: Large, Huge line on the tech app for compatiblePlanetSize by adding this line to the .csv:

Spoiler

However, I tried doing the same with compatiblePlanetaryResource, and I ran into some trouble.  I added this,

Spoiler

and the Restricted to: line does show up, but it only recognizes the built in resources.  So it's blank for the tech that's restricted to natural wonders, and for the one for dark quartz and rare heavy metals, it only lists the dark quartz.  If you could figure out any way to force it to recognize those planetary resources, I'd be grateful.  Otherwise the best I can do is make it say "Restricted to planets with resources" and list the resources in the description.

 

Unfortunately I haven't had any luck creating a tooltip stat link line for showing the population growth bonus correctly on the planet screen for natural wonders.

 


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 05 December 2016 - 02:08 PM.

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Exoclyps #124 Posted 05 December 2016 - 02:28 PM

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Changing the flags worked when I did it on my end. Managed to get it so that the military ships got priority by changing the other ships to a higher number on the priority (above 10 is what I used).

 

Well, currently Advanced Military Outpost already takes 15 with the current Advanced Space Factory. Adding a more advanced output would mean it takes even longer.

 

That's some awesome news with being able to add tooltips. I have no  great idea for  the resources. Perhaps try if you can use some of the "tradeable_resource" instead? Wouldn't be optimal though.

 

My guess is that the population growth is a "-% food required for next population", hence a negative. Perhaps see if you can reword it around that? Not sure if possible.

 



Ghettobible #125 Posted 05 December 2016 - 04:27 PM

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Would like an answer even if it's no, but has anyone else been running into turns that will not finish processing? I don't know if it's the mod or if I should just reinstall MoO and then try again. 

Spud_Dastardly #126 Posted 05 December 2016 - 05:19 PM

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Still no luck with the link tabes.  I set Antaran desired victory chances to 30 and it definitely had an effect.  I think 35 is probably ideal.  Finished with the new pollution structures for +production races too.  They might be a bit too good in the early game, but later on they're definitely necessary.  I reduced the advanced military outpost build time to 10 turns by the way so it could go 5, 10, 15.  Still not sure I want another space factory.   I'll work on flags and Antaran bombs next.

 

No, I haven't had any issues with turns not processing correctly.  I just played 158 turns without issue.

 

Update:  Flags done.  Changing Antarans to neutronium bombs won't stick for some reason.  I modded AntaranSettings.yaml and ShipBlueprintTemplates.yaml.  Am I missing something?


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 05 December 2016 - 06:19 PM.

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Laegad #127 Posted 05 December 2016 - 05:48 PM

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Spud_Dastarly, i'll try to tune your mod.

I like to play on Impossible / Large Galaxy / 8 players (so no lesser races, until they fix the galaxy generation problem)

With these parameters, AI develop quick enought,

But Bulrathi goes faster than other.

Well, what happen : They ends the game by transcendance victory... while i was at 3 turns for economic victory :angry:

I don't want to cancel the game victory (not fair), but i ll try to slow down AI research a while.

I will try an 'impossible' game with these values :

name:                                   research_multiplier_bonus          credits_multiplier_bonus           command_points_multiplier_bonus          colony_production_multiplier_bonus          food_production_multiplier_bonus
DIFFICULTY_VERY_EASY                   -0.3                                                  -0.3                                                             -0.3                                                           -0.3                                                                         -0.3
DIFFICULTY_EASY                              -0.1                                                  -0.1                                                             -0.1                                                           -0.1                                                                         -0.1
DIFFICULTY_AVERAGE                       0                                                       0                                                                  0                                                               0                                                                              0
DIFFICULTY_HARD                             0.1                                                    0.15                                                            0.1                                                            0.1                                                                           0.1
DIFFICULTY_VERY_HARD                 0.25                                                  0.375                                                          0.2                                                            0.25                                                                         0.15
DIFFICULTY_EXTREME                     0.5                                                     0.75                                                            0.4                                                            0.5                                                                           0.2
DIFFICULTY_IMPOSSIBLE                1.0  ->0.75                                        1.5  ->1                                                      0.8                                                               1.0                                                                           0.25
 
- An average credit multiplier is very usefull for 'not AI player', because it allow player to make lot of trade treaties, so i'm not sure the 1.5 is an advantage for the AI (AI waste its credits, so why give more credit to the AI ?)
- Research rate is slow down.
   The problem of the scientist victory is it is impossible to prevent an AI to do it... on a medium galaxy size you can but on large galaxy, if the AI is on the other side.. you have not the time do do something.
 
Also, I all my games (both with and without the 5x mod), Bulrathi always develop faster than other races.
Perhaps this race need some adjustment ? (Perhaps the Terrans too)
 
Also, i saw in your mod that pirate are a little stronger (is it because of the 5x mod or the last patch ?),
I like this, but in my game at turn 93 i have this message : "Alkari where killed by pirat" (mpphh.. how is it possible ? Perhaps Antaran break their defense, and then pirats finish them ?)
I don't know if this could need a tune...
 
Perhaps i wil try a game with less AI (so with lessers races)...
Having a place to extand is something that advantage AI on these levels.


Spud_Dastardly #128 Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:34 PM

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Thanks for the feedback Laegad.  The Bulrathi are always in the middle for me, not on top, but then again I play on Very Hard, not Impossible, so it might be a difficulty thing.  Probably what is making them develop so fast is the All Gravity Tolerance trait, which allows them to get all of the best planets around.

 

The reason to give 1.5 credits to the AI is because they waste their credits.  Giving them fewer credits would just make them more poor.  Players can already make as many trade treaties as they want on any difficulty by getting tribute from the AI in exchange for the amount they need to invest initially, so I don't see that as an issue.  Maybe I will take it back down to 1 though if you say it is unbalanced, though I would like to hear others' experience on Impossible too in order to compare.

 

As for research, I can see how playing on Impossible with the tech victory on would present that problem.  I always play with the tech victory off.  Let me know how your game goes with 0.75, and I'll see about changing that if it seems right to you.

 

I did make pirates a little stronger.  I made them spawn bigger ships sooner, and now they spawn 2 destroyers or cruisers instead of 1.  I didn't change the ship design though.  It sounds like it's too much for the incompetent AI.  I just wanted them to be a little more of a challenge to the player.  I will change their spawns back down to 1 ship instead of 2.

 

Let me know how your next game goes.  I will have some more lines to translate soon as I am preparing several new features for the next update.


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Laegad #129 Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:54 PM

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In the previous game, and on this one i found no anomaly (and i prioritize exploration @ game start),

Is it from the 5x mod or they removed this from the game ?

 

[Edit]Ha.. one was found...

Is it possible that sometime there is no anomaly at all ?

One game : No anomalies, then nex game : 3 anomalies with 5 or 6 systems explored.

It is a problem of the new galaxy generation ?

Does anybody already see this ?


Edited by Laegad, 05 December 2016 - 07:24 PM.


Ghettobible #130 Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:09 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 05 December 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

Still no luck with the link tabes.  I set Antaran desired victory chances to 30 and it definitely had an effect.  I think 35 is probably ideal.  Finished with the new pollution structures for +production races too.  They might be a bit too good in the early game, but later on they're definitely necessary.  I reduced the advanced military outpost build time to 10 turns by the way so it could go 5, 10, 15.  Still not sure I want another space factory.   I'll work on flags and Antaran bombs next.

 

No, I haven't had any issues with turns not processing correctly.  I just played 158 turns without issue.

 

Update:  Flags done.  Changing Antarans to neutronium bombs won't stick for some reason.  I modded AntaranSettings.yaml and ShipBlueprintTemplates.yaml.  Am I missing something?

 

I've had it happen 3 times, deleted the game then reinstalled via steam, going to try again. It must be something that happens in the game as I went back ten turns and always on the same turn for one game I played it happens no matter what. It's random when it hits but it's always 150+ turns when it does. I know hyper advance doesn't load so maybe a setting or an event that comes up that causes it to happen.

shavas #131 Posted 05 December 2016 - 10:10 PM

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Just reporting a bug with the mod. The exoctic wildlife mod you added is supposed to add to the pop growth. But in my game it is definitely listed as -0.25%. Not sure if it is as intended or your notes are wrong.

Exoclyps #132 Posted 06 December 2016 - 01:15 AM

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From my experience, every now and the you get a race that just shoots away. I had a game where the Terran started a Gaia and terran world in their home system. Saw similar results to what you posted.RNG can do that sometimes.

In my most recent games the Bulrathi where actually the first to get destroyed.

About giving credits to the AI, it is because they waste it that they need extra. That said, I ran with 1.5 on gold my last game and they where always out. Hard to strike a balance.

Spud_Dastardly #133 Posted 06 December 2016 - 04:02 AM

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@Laegad My mod adds a lot more anomalies than you'll see in the base game.  You must have gotten unlucky that first time.  It is random after all.

 

@shavas Prolific Wildlife is definitely functioning correctly.  It's only the display that is wrong, and I can't find a way to change that display.  If you want to test for yourself, you can use the following settings:

Spoiler

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Exoclyps #134 Posted 06 December 2016 - 12:03 PM

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So I finally got my hands on the DLC, which means it's time for some race feedback, yay!

 

To start, I seems to get some names not showing properly in 2.0.3 that I downloaded from your dropbox. 2.0.1 works just fine on that point, haven't tested 2.0.2. Some example is the -10% security that shows up as "COUNTERSPIONAGE_LOWISH_NAME" as well as the new starting technology and a few other stuffs that you've added. Also a lot off other things seems messsed up in the Custom Race Screen, so I'll just give feedback based on 2.0.1 going forward.

 

So down to the races:

* Psilons. I see that they finaly got their low-g. And that you gave them a BC bonus in return. Not sure how well that fits their lore though, but I suppose it's a "general bonus" kind of approach. And I never got why they had the negative security trait to start with? Besides, with the new buildings to the various resources maybe artifacts might finally be worth 2 points. Remove one from the security and you're just 1 more point to go, which can be the extra tech or some other?

Another idea I had was to perhaps remodel the Technologist trait to rather than give Physics together with the Artifacts, perhaps straightout just give some of the buildings from the start? So Technologist would give you the Artifacts coupled with perhaps Research Lab, Automated Factories and the new Artifacts Research Factory. Say it'd cost 4 points and now we got the Psilons perfectly setup at 10 points.

 

* Trillians. I like what you did there. Since they are not getting the extra food from oceans per default makes it a bit harsher there. So the extra food from population I find being a very good compromize!

 

* Gnolam. I like gnomals, but one small tiny thing. The morale doesn't really fit in with Fantastic Traders if you ask me. However after some thinking I kinda can go with giving them morale. Since they make a lot of money and all that shizzle, they are more tolerant to paying taxes. So you could call it "Tax Tolerant" or something for the Gnolams and give them moral as a sub-trait.

 

Speaking of morale. I think it might be overpriced. True that it gives a +33% income bonus at the start of the game, but it scales terribly, horridly aweful with the tech tree. Lets compare it to +25% tax.

 

Start: +33% Income with morale, +25% income with tax.
Build Colonial Revenue Service: +25% income with morale (5/4), +25% income with tax.
Build Space Port: +20% income with morale. (6/5)
Get Virtual Reality Network: +16.7% income with morale. (7/6)
And lets not talk about Planetary Stock Exchange. +12.5% income with morale (9/8).

 

Looking at it this way, morale might be worth even less than the tax bonus. So at least putting them both at same cost would be the closer to fair. Morale would give you more early (until you get Colonial Revenue Service), but less later.

 

Btw, on "Lucky", how come the description is different with your mod compare to without? Completely different actually. The unmodded description would suggest that Antaran is less likely to attack as well as unlucky events are less likely to happen. Which does kinda suggest they are just not unlucky so kinda dull.

 

In conclusion. My suggestion for the race would actually be to reduce the treaty bonus to +25% as in MoO2 and increase morale to 10% under a "tax tolerant" approach. This would give them a total income bonus of 100% which is equal to MoO2 actually.

 

* Elerian. I like how you made them and have no real quarrel with how they are designed at first look, would have to see how they fair in game before I can tell more. Perhaps points won't add up if Morale is made cheaper. Bundling up the -research, -morale and ship cost into a "feudal" bundle trait would add to immersion though.

 

* Morale again. And ofcourse, if morale cost is reduced a few races needs to be reviewed. Humans could perhaps get their trade goods bonus removed in favor of changing morale to 10%. They never had that bonus in MoO2 anyways.



Spud_Dastardly #135 Posted 06 December 2016 - 01:24 PM

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All of the names are showing up fine for me.  Are you trying to run multiple versions of my mod at once?  That might cause some issues.

 

In MoO2 on Hard or Impossible difficulty, the Psilons were given a democracy government for the extra research bonus.  This meant they got a BC bonus and a security penalty as well.  Because all RP costs for techs have been increased by 33%, I no longer think that artifacts is worth 2 points.  I can't give pre-built buildings as a racial perk.  

 

Trilarians: Aquatic got a food bonus in MoO2, so it was only natural.

 

Gnolams: I lumped in morale with fantastic traders because it was without it, it's basically the same trait as Traders.  I thought it should have something more to make it unique.

 

You might be right about morale.  I never thought of it that way.

 

Lucky description has been fixed in 2.0.3.  The one you see is the description that was programmed in before they added the actual trait.  2.0.3 removes all unused lines from the .csv to avoid such conflicts in the future.

 

Elerians: Feudal was definitely what I had in mind for that trait combo.  I didn't think it would be fair to include the actual Feudal trait without doing the same for the other governments as well.  Maybe I should?  I might save that for a future update.

 

Morale: If I change humans to 10%, then they would be a bit too similar to the terrans.  Also if I'm putting 10% as 3 points, then what is 5% supposed to cost?  And what to do with the terrans and Darloks...

 

 


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Exoclyps #136 Posted 06 December 2016 - 03:12 PM

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I was using 2.0.3 when I got the issue with the names, loading both 2.0.1 and 2.0.3 together actually fixed it. But no worries, if it works on your end I'm sure it'll work just fine for me once you release next version officially.

 

*Psilons. I suppose it makes more sense then with that in mind. For some reason I feel like moral would fit them better though, but not that big of a deal there. It would still be possible to give them the tech, they would have to build it though.

 

*Gnolams. If Humans where to lose the Trade Goods bonus then Gnolams would be unique without adding Morale into the bundle. It would be pretty cool with a +50% tax and +10% morale under some “Diligent Taxpayers” with the idea that due to high amount of money everyone makes of trades they are good at paying their taxes or something. Not a huge need though, just wanted to show a difference from the morale. Like Terran morale is “hard working”, while Gnolams morale is more “I’m fine with higher tax”.

 

*Elerians. The more stuffs that gets bundled, the cooler I say! But one problem would be that you can’t really bundle democracy for both Humans and Psilons since the Psilons already got the research bonus bundled together with creative. But I still do want to see more bundles. If I come up with something cool I’ll share with ya.

 

*Morale. Well, the problem is that currently 5% morale is most probably not worth 2 points and yeah, 1 point is a bit too cheap. Well, if Humans where to get a +10% morale bonus then Terrans would perhaps get a +20%, but then that would be a lot of points to spend to get there. But then again!

+50% tax with Colonial Revenue and Space Port would equal 7.5 BC per pop.

+20% morale with Colonial Revenue and Space Port would equal 7 BC per pop.

 

Could give Terrans -50% Assilimation Power. They do not really seem like the kind of guys that would make it easier for other races to join their empire.

 

For the Darloks. I honestly dunno how well they currently fair against other races as I always use their avatar for my custom race. But one option would be to increase their morale to 10% and then remove the assilimation bonus. But then again… why do they have the morale to start with? Could replace it altogether with something else, a lot of races is getting morale lately. We really need a reduce mission time trait btw. Also Spying Experience gets quickly obsolete I think. Would need a max level bonus really, but that’s not really much we can do anything about.

 

Btw, you said you added some new pollution building for people with production bonus? Maybe add it as a hidden tech after one of the other pollution bonuses so it unlocks for people once they research that. Might be a bit confusing though, dunno, but would get the job done. Or maybe it would be possible to add a requirement for the perk in the techapp even? And then add it together with the other pollution buildings, a bit like the biome tech.



jasonwclark #137 Posted 06 December 2016 - 05:16 PM

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Probably still early days yet, but any thoughts on whether we can mod governments into the game?

 

I do miss the Confederations, Imperiums, Federations, and Galactic Unifications. I wonder if there's any way to make these options available at the Advanced Government tech level, so they are tied to the initial Government selection?

 

I'm definitely happy with the DLC updates, but I was hoping Governments and Boarding Actions would make it in. It's still not quite the full MOO2 yet haha.

 

I noticed that the voicework for the Elerians frequently refers to their empire as a Dominion (in addition to Elerian Fiefdoms) I kind of prefer Dominion. Maybe because of DS9, or the British Empire, but it has a certain ring to it. 

 

I think Dorn probably made some quality improvisations in the recording sessions that didn't get revised in the actual text descriptions. There are more than a few instances where the pop up message doesn't quite match the words being spoken. But yeah, I dig the sound of Dominion. Maybe it could be the advanced government type for Feudal? 



Spud_Dastardly #138 Posted 06 December 2016 - 07:25 PM

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I'll give race balance some more thought, but I don't know if those changes will make it into my next update.  I like the idea of making those production bonus pollution techs higher up the tech tree; I forgot I could do that.

 

@Jason  Fun fact: governments are already in the game.   Each race has one programmed in, and there's a whole yaml for them:

Spoiler

None of it works, of course.  I could probably whip up some ad hoc governments.  That is, I could come up with some race trait bundles for each type.  I was thinking of how this could be accomplished given some difficulties involved; for example the Humans and Psilons both need Democracy, which has a research bonus, but the Humans need +25% and the Psilons need +50%.  I could always create two Democracy traits: Democracy and Democracy Variant, to accomplish that.  I could create a variant option for each government in fact so I can tailor it to each race.  

 

For advanced, governments, I can create a new tech node in the tree, and have each government come with a "starting tech" that is really a hidden node that requires the advanced government node.  That way when you research advanced government (which would appear as a blank node on the tree), you get your specific advanced government unlocked.  The actual bonuses would have to be granted by buildings, not instant racial perks.  Some of that could be made global, like an empire unique building granting +25% empire credits for federation.  Others would have to be more specific and built in each system or planet.  

 

I'll keep thinking about it...


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shavas #139 Posted 06 December 2016 - 09:22 PM

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Thanks for the update Spud. I just wanted to report it as it seemed odd. I hadn't actually checked if it was working as intended (just checked the notes to see if it was suppoed to be a + or -).

Exoclyps #140 Posted 07 December 2016 - 03:34 AM

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One way to deal with the Humans vs Psilons issue is that you could perhaps just give the humans "Republic" as their government and then the Psilons Democracy as theirs. The former would have morale bonus while the later have BC and higher research.

 

For the Humans you could go as far as merging it together with Diplomat and creating a new "Republic" trait bundle that would have: (could use the Diplomat Icon, even)
Starting Technology: Government

Morale: +10%

Trading: Trade Treaties: +50%

Research from Population: +30%

Security: -10%

 

For the Psilons I suppose you could just pull out +60% research from Creative and create a "Democracy" trait bundle that would have:

Credits from Population: +25%

Research from Population: +60%

Security: -10%

 

The biggest issue I have with this approach though is that I honestly kind of like the Research bonus and Creative bonus being bundled together, but if it needs to be sacrificed in favor of a democracy trait bundle though, I'm sure the end result would be more interesting. Also, it does kind-of gives the impression that their research bonus is due to their democratic tendencies, so might need a bit more work on that end to be honest. I still do really like the Humans bundle perk I proposed!

 

And then we also have the Klackons with their Unification to keep in mind. The building you could have for the bonus could be an upgrade to the capitol that's cheap to build.


Edited by Exoclyps, 07 December 2016 - 03:37 AM.






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