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5X - The Ultimate Balance Mod

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Spud_Dastardly #61 Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:45 AM

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An update on the planetary resources.  I dug around in the game's files and found two unused parameters: moraleBonus and populationGrowthPercentualBonus.  They both function, so I created a new resource, Natural Wonders, to give a 5% morale bonus, and "Prolific Wildlife" to give a +25% population growth bonus for the planet.  I decided not to do most of the other composite traits.  In particular, natives seem not so relevant now that we're getting minor civs.  I was always iffy on the "ancient androids" thing.  I did decide to do "Rare Heavy Metals" for +2 production and +5 BC however.  Now all planets have a 50% chance of getting a resource.  Let me know what you think.

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Exoclyps #62 Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:01 AM

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At first glance: I like it, a lot. But then I had a second thought on things here. While I like the new bonuses, won't adding more bonus reduce the chance of getting the old bonuses? Since I think that the some of the old bonuses are better than the the new ones it means overall you get less "good" bonuses with this change. Unless I'm totally wrong here? But perhaps that's a minor thing that can be adjusted? Haven't looked into those files so dunno.

Spud_Dastardly #63 Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:21 AM

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Previously many biomes had a 40% chance of having a bonus and a 60% chance of having no bonus.  For those biomes I added a new trait so that they still have the 40% chance of getting the original bonus, but now they have a 10% chance of getting a new bonus and a 50% chance of having no bonus.  In a couple instances I did replace existing bonuses with the new traits.  Overall you're getting more good than bad with this change.

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Spud_Dastardly #64 Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:28 AM

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View PostExoclyps, on 30 November 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

Btw, any thoughts on more custom difficulties?

 

For example, an interesting bonus to increase would be the credits multiplier.

Also I've started to think I want to see a higher food production multiplier bonus. While it does let you abuse it slightly, the AI is not as good as creating population on their own, so they do need a bonus there.

 

So what I was thinking, imagine say a difficulty that looked something like:
          research_multiplier_bonus: 0.5
          credits_multiplier_bonus: 1.5
          command_points_multiplier_bonus: 0.25
          colony_production_multiplier_bonus: 0.5
          food_production_multiplier_bonus: 0.2

 

This is just an example. Credits could be increased more to not only make sure they have money to trade with, but also so that they can, ehem, "cheat" if needed. Command Points is lower to foster smaller fleets that are rebuilt rather than just huge from the get-go. A slightly increased food production so that you as player don't end up with twice the pop that foster the same results in research/production as theirs.

 

Would in all honestly love to see more choices to change in the difficulties.

Imagine a -50% ship cost rather than an outright bonus to production.

 

Edit:
Things could look a bit like this:
 

Spoiler

 

 

I think you're right that what they really need is more money and fewer command points, though I'm going to balance it a bit differently.  The AI is always broke, and at +100% command points on impossible, they're probably building too much.  I'll make some adjustments similar to what you have.  It would be nice if things like ship cost were available as parameters, but they're not.


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 30 November 2016 - 08:32 AM.

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Exoclyps #65 Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:55 AM

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* Biomes. In that case all good. Things that makes the game more interesting with diferenses and stuffs is awesome if you ask me!

 

Just a though. Would it be possible to add an unique trait to Orion? Not sure how it works. But currently Orion is no different from any other Ultra Rich Huge you find out there (even if those are rare). Heck even now an Ultra Rich planet isn't that much of a bonus due to pollution. So any trait that would make Orion more unique would be awesome.

 

* Difficulties. My example was taken out of the air at the moment there to get the idea going. Where you'd boost credits more than others and have command points a bit less (at +100% it takes away some strategic stuffs). And to point out my personal thingy with the food, which I think is very playstyle dependant. I'd not abuse it personally and it would help make the AI keep up in population growth.

 

Speaking of population growth, I read somewhere that the AI was terrible at using terraforming, which is something I also saw in my game. Perhaps it'll get fixed in the next patch, but if not, I wonder if there is something that can help in modding for that? I got the feeling that the AI can't understand what terraform does and thus does not compute it.

 

Like in "expansion" it'd choose a +production building or something ya know. But since terraforming does nothing like that it doesn't understand what benefit it'd give and thus it avoids it. I dunno, but if that's the issue it'd be really hard to fix on our end.

 

There is the option to reduce ship cost with a trait, but that'd involve editing the stock races and as such force the player to use custom race.... a whole different mod to be honest.

 

Btw, the custom difficulty setting I made for my next game:

Spoiler

 

Edit:

It would thought be possible to add a new trait category that contains 0 point traits that can let the player add self-induced handicaps. Like +% ship costs and the likes.


Edited by Exoclyps, 30 November 2016 - 09:00 AM.


Spud_Dastardly #66 Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:26 AM

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I tried to give Orion artifacts by giving the Orion race the artifacts racial trait, but it didn't work.  There's no way to specify any resource bonus directly for Orion.  I might be able to set how inclined the AI is to terraform using the "ecologist" parameter, but that might just have to do with how they select biomes to colonize. You difficulty suggestions sound like it would be a good addition to your addon mod ;).

 

Turns out I can't make the Orion techs tradeable btw.  Oh well.


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 30 November 2016 - 09:43 AM.

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Exoclyps #67 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:15 AM

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Yeah, was mostly brainstorming though!

But was considering making an "Difficulty Mod" for those that want to make life even harder for themself.

Spud_Dastardly #68 Posted 01 December 2016 - 05:59 PM

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Version 2.0 is now available!  It's fully compatible with the new patch.  Enjoy!

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jasonwclark #69 Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:38 PM

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Nice, looks like they got the mod updating to work? because my mods library showed 5X listed as 2.0 active without having to do anything manually. 

 

 



Laegad #70 Posted 02 December 2016 - 12:18 AM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 01 December 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

Version 2.0 is now available!  It's fully compatible with the new patch.  Enjoy!

 

I'm impresseed with your work

 

It seems there is a problem (you confirm ?) : If i create a game with the mod (medium size galaxy, 7 or 8 AI), the game begin to create the galaxy, and stay freezed... You don't enter the game.

I made several test, the game succed to start only one time (but was closer to freeze during the galaxy creation)

It has something to do with the mod, because if i disable the mod, the problem disappear.

 

I've downloaded the mod from Nexus.

 

 


Edited by Laegad, 02 December 2016 - 12:25 AM.


Spud_Dastardly #71 Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:44 AM

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Thanks for reporting the issue Laegad.  The devs changed how the galaxy is generated in this patch.  I was having some issues with the Hyper Advanced starting age, but I wasn't aware this was a problem on normal starting ages as well.  It's probably due to the additional minor civs I put in each galaxy size.  I will see if I can get a fix for it ASAP.  It may succeed if you give it a few attempts.

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Laegad #72 Posted 02 December 2016 - 04:06 AM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 02 December 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

Thanks for reporting the issue Laegad.  The devs changed how the galaxy is generated in this patch.  I was having some issues with the Hyper Advanced starting age, but I wasn't aware this was a problem on normal starting ages as well.  It's probably due to the additional minor civs I put in each galaxy size.  I will see if I can get a fix for it ASAP.  It may succeed if you give it a few attempts.

 

I've seen this problem both on pre-warp and normal starting age.

(I usually play on Pre-Warp)



Spud_Dastardly #73 Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:32 AM

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I think if I reduce the civDegreesOfSepparation parameter, it might solve the galaxy generation problem.

 

By the way, those who have the DLC, what do you think of my DLC race designs?  It seems like they made the Elerians a bit overpowered, so I nerfed them a bit.  I also gave them a research penalty and ship cost -25% to reflect the Feudal trait from MoO2.


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Exoclyps #74 Posted 02 December 2016 - 10:16 AM

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So got around to take a look at the mod. Haven't bought the DLC yet, will do that tomorrow, so can't comment on the races yet.

 

* I see that you reverted pollution to how it was before? 1 from each pop and 1.5 from production.  But then again, you never reduced the pollution from production though.

 

* You also managed to restrict a structure to size! That's awesome. That actually makes it possible to make say 3 versions of both Pollution Processor and Toxic Processor that could have +5 each on Large/Huge and -5 each on small/tiny with a +/-1 maintenance cost to go. This way you get the same result without adding the extra building.

 

* I like the the new Mining Station and Research Outpost. I wonder if Gravity can be used as a restriction?

 

* Gravity Generators getting moved is an interesting choice. I was debating with myself a lot if I wanted to move it or not.

 

 

I'll be back once I get to try more stuffs out.



Spud_Dastardly #75 Posted 02 December 2016 - 10:43 AM

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The reason I had eliminated pollution from population was that it created a disadvantage on larger planet sizes.  Now with the matter converter to reduce pollution for large and huge planets, that problem has been mitigated.  You see, I poked around in the game's files and found the unused compatibleSize parameter, and it worked, which is nice.  I can't create different versions of the toxic processor because only the original building has the effect of converting toxic biomes to barren.  I thought about creating different versions of the pollution processor as you say, but I decided it would be annoying and possibly confusing to have three of the same techs on the tech tree.  There is no compatibleGravity setting, but interestingly there is a compatiblePlanetaryResource setting, so you can potentially design buildings that can only be built on Dark Quartz planets, for example. That could give some extra potential to those planetary resources if for example in mid game you could upgrade your dark quartz planets to give an extra +1 production to each worker.

 

FYI: Here's the full list of parameters for ColonyStructureTypes:

Spoiler

 


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 02 December 2016 - 10:48 AM.

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Exoclyps #76 Posted 02 December 2016 - 11:19 AM

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The thing is. I actually saw a discussion where some would deem Advanced City Planning a bad tech choice since it increase pollution output. Sure, it's only 5 and with all the other stuffs it's a lot easier to negate in your mod, but still yeah. Personally I liked the 0 from population with 1 from production. It was straightforward. I'll keep that setting on my game actually, and adjust other buildings accordingly.

 

Ah, bummer on not being able to create different Toxic Processors. The thing is though, that I think you might be able to add more than 1 building to the same techapp. I actually was able to do it, I did when I tested the barracks for my "choice upgrade" idea I had earlier. It's just that I had some weird issue where some of the icons in the tech tree didn't show properly; not sure what caused it as I reverted to earlier files after I finished the test, so might have messed something else up that caused it. If it does manage to work-out, it'd be possible to just write in the description "pollution reduced by xx based on size" or something.

 

Another building that can be made now is the Robotic Factory. That could give +4, +5, +6, +7 or +8 depending on size. My numbers came from 2+max_production_slots/2. But I just realized that Robotic Factory was based on Richness and not Size in MoO2, so those numbers are kinda void there.

 

I like the idea of a building that can benefit from Dark Quartz. Would also be cool if the other resources could give bonus as well. We just gotta be careful not to give too much.

 

Speaking of which. I kinda like the idea of empireunique buildings that boost a single planet. For a wide empire the bonus would be small, but for a tall empire on the other hand. A little like wonders in Civilizations.

 

Oh, btw, I see that you kept Deep-Space Exploration as a technode.

 

Edit:
You should be able to completely remove the line "empireSecurityBonus: 0" from the Galactic Cybernet if I'm not mistaken.

 


Edited by Exoclyps, 02 December 2016 - 12:46 PM.


Spud_Dastardly #77 Posted 02 December 2016 - 01:16 PM

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If I added multiple techs to a single techapp, which building stats would it show in the tree?  

 

I want to create a building for each planetary resource that you can research in a new node mid game.  Given that there are 6 resource modding parameters: food, BC, production, research, morale, and population growth, that would make 6 techs to add.  I could make some of them a choice, but I don't know if that's worth it.  I can just make a node that unlocks all 6 somewhere around galactic trading.  Or maybe I can create two nodes: one gives the morale building (for natural wonders) free and offers a choice between the BC and Research, and the other gives the pop growth (for Prolific wildlife) free then offers a choice between the food and production buildings.  Thoughts?

 

I don't want too many empire unique buildings that give single planet bonuses because then people will just build every single one on Orion and it'll be way OP.  If you've got any specific ideas for that though, I'm open to it.

 

I kept Deep-Space Exploration yes.  I decided that not being able to build a colony base at the beginning does serve a useful purpose.  It disincentivizes colonizing harsh biomes early on, making those harder biomes, which tend to be more mineral rich, a little harder to get at first.  Because I made it buildable and scrappable, there's no problem not starting with it since you can build it later.

 

I don't think I can remove the empireSecurtyBonus: 0.  I actually asked a dev about this, and he said getting that not to show up requires actually a significant change to the programming because that's how they mark the variable as "dirty" (i.e. a variable that was changed from the default then changed back).  

 

By the way, I want to come up with a cool tech to go in the Planar Transcendence node right before the end of the tech tree so you have something to research when the tech victory is off.  Any ideas?


Edited by Spud_Dastardly, 02 December 2016 - 01:27 PM.

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Spud_Dastardly #78 Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:42 PM

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View PostLaegad, on 02 December 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

 

I'm impresseed with your work

 

It seems there is a problem (you confirm ?) : If i create a game with the mod (medium size galaxy, 7 or 8 AI), the game begin to create the galaxy, and stay freezed... You don't enter the game.

I made several test, the game succed to start only one time (but was closer to freeze during the galaxy creation)

It has something to do with the mod, because if i disable the mod, the problem disappear.

Follow up on this.  I've run several tests.  It seems to have to do with the minor civs.  The unmodded game freezes on 8 opponents on a medium circle sometimes too depending on the seed (for example, seed 65310 causes the unmodded game to freeze on the loading screen).  I've reported the issue with the devs.


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Exoclyps #79 Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:51 PM

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So if you edited the TechApp to:
            unlocks:
               - structure_1

               - structure_2

 

It'd give you both structure 1 and 2, but only show structure_1 in the tech tree. Double checked with adding galactic cybernet to the research lab tech app and it showed only the lab in the research tree, but gave me both afterwards.
            unlocks:
               - structure_research_laboratory
               - structure_galactic_cybernet_node_eXo

 

Actually, I don't think it would be all bad if Orion ended up "super OP". I mean, Orion is kinda lackluster atm to be honest. I have no great ideas yet, but I had a small idea of giving the player 3 different Astro Universities that gave +25% on either production, food or research. The upgrade would be galaxyUnique so only one planet could have the bonus, and you could only give one of the bonuses to the same planet, so no "super-orion" problem there :D

 

On deep-space exploration. After I started to play pre-warp now rather than post-warp I kinda get your point. While playing Post-warp I'd just pickup Deep-Space Exploration among the first things, which resulted in my first planet not having the colony base, but all other would have it anyways.

 

Ahhh... So that's why the Warehouse gets "Maintenance: 0". But you can fix it using the _xxx method to the id-tag:
 

Spoiler

 

Don't mind my tweaks to cost and maintenance, just minor testing on that end. But I'm looking into making the Galactic Currency Exchange the more expensive one to build as that one only needs to be built once.

But gotta check and see if I can fix the warehouse too using the same method.

 

Gotta think on the tech for Planar Transcendence. Hard one since ya want something that is fun, creative, rewarding, yet does not overpower you XD Best idea I've had so far is a building that is required to be built before you can build the other two nice buildings... but yeah, fun and rewarding and all.

 

Edit: And that does it:

Spoiler

 


Edited by Exoclyps, 02 December 2016 - 02:57 PM.


Laegad #80 Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:33 PM

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View PostSpud_Dastardly, on 02 December 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

Follow up on this.  I've run several tests.  It seems to have to do with the minor civs.  The unmodded game freezes on 8 opponents on a medium circle sometimes too depending on the seed (for example, seed 65310 causes the unmodded game to freeze on the loading screen).  I've reported the issue with the devs.

 

Ok.. i've just created a game with 'minor civs' disabled and the 5x mod => No problem.

I suspect that at the end of the galaxy creation the programme search where to place minors civs, and sometime fail to find a valid place because these is no valid place... and then stay in a search loop or something like that.

A reason why the problem is shown when we configure lot of AI, and for some seed too... i bet (but not tested) that with only 1 AI there is no problem...

 


Edited by Laegad, 02 December 2016 - 03:39 PM.






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