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MIRV Travelling Twice

Bug MIRV Missiles Known Issue

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PistoleiroNF #1 Posted 07 December 2016 - 12:47 PM

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I can't find this issue anywhere on the last known issues log. Could this please be added as it doesn't seem correct that MIRV should do the below?

 

 

 

-> --- --- --- --- --- --- -- -- --- --- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- X     {Target}

 

Followed by:

 

-> --- --- --- --- --- --- -- -- --- --- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- {Target}

-> --- --- --- --- --- --- -- -- --- --- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- {Target}

-> --- --- --- --- --- --- -- -- --- --- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- {Target}

-> --- --- --- --- --- --- -- -- --- --- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- {Target}

 

Rather than doing the below

                                                                                                  /---{Target}

                                                                                                  /---{Target}
-> --- --- --- --- --- --- -- -- --- --- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ----{Target}

                                                                                                  \---{Target}

                                                                                                  \---{Target}
 
 
The affect of the current MIRV configuration is that the missiles have to travel twice the distance to target, Also it doens't give you a clear display of what has been destroyed by PD /Evaded due to ECM
 
P.S. last patch was great.
 
Thanks,
 
 


Carl #2 Posted 07 December 2016 - 08:23 PM

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Also currently MIRV makes PD completely worthless as the split distance is = to the PD max rnage so the missiles will allways split before the PD can knock them down.

Exoclyps #3 Posted 08 December 2016 - 08:40 AM

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Isn't that one of the main reasons to get MIRV?

Carl #4 Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:02 PM

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No. MIRV doubles their damage. That alone is the reason to get it. Besides making all OPD completely worthless is a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Exoclyps #5 Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:07 PM

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But wasn't it like that in MoO2 as well. But then again, missiles are quite strong so a fix to that would make them more balanced.

Carl #6 Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:26 PM

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I didn't play Moo2 and i honestly don't care what it was like in MOO2, this isn't MOO2 and regardless of weather it would be balanced or sensible in MOO2, (and i doubt it was), it isn't balanced or sensible in this version of MOO.

 

The balance between offensive systems and PD is a key and important one overall in ship design, being able to completely nullify that regardless of what else the mod does simply isn't a good idea. It's not balanced either but thats quite besides the point of weather it's sensible or not, (not that it being imbalanced isn't an issue in it's own right of nearly equal importance IMO). Add on the fact that it doubles damage and it's just downright awful from a balance perspective.



PistoleiroNF #7 Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:53 AM

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Just to bring us back on topic this is more about the fact this isn't correct representation of what MIRV is, and also that the need to travel the distance from ship to target twice reduces the effectiveness of MIRV the tool tip at the moment should really say (MIRV 2x Damage 1/2 missile speed). 

 

Developers, could you please add this to the known issue log?



WhatIsSol #8 Posted 09 December 2016 - 06:42 PM

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Looks like a bug to me. The first salvo is the actual missiles at the point they should MIRV they get destroyed by the game and the MIRV fragements are generated.


Looks like the developers forgot to set the position of the fragements and instead of starting at the point they spilt they are starting at the firing ship.


Yep setting the correct owner for the MIRV fragements make them spawn in the proper place.


Should look like this: http://www.orderofmi...om/MOO/MIRV.mp4


the little explosion is the missle MIRVing


Edited by WhatIsSol, 09 December 2016 - 07:06 PM.


Carl #9 Posted 09 December 2016 - 10:33 PM

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Huh. how'd you do that? Which files contain the relevant values? I suspect that the whole "can be shot at by PD" flag is in there somwhere too.

WhatIsSol #10 Posted 09 December 2016 - 11:19 PM

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It is not in a user editable file.  I wrote my own patch to the games exe to correct the issue.


WhatIsSol #11 Posted 10 December 2016 - 03:34 AM

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FYI - rolled back my MIRV patch for this cause I did not want any confusion. This is using a beefed up pirate mod where they have best targeting computer and phasor point defense.
 
Point Defense Issue:
 
Cause - as you can see if you look closely the Point Defense is firing in both videos, but in the first one it basically is firing AFTER the missile has MIRVed, which makes it worthless. When the fragments come in it is on cooldown so it will not fire again.​  Fragments are not targetable.
 
Fix for this is a simple yaml edit.  Adjust the file ShipModuleModTypes.yaml and change this setting:
 
mirvDistance: 5.0 (Default from bad point defense) to
mirvDistance: 2.0 (value for second video)
 
It allows the PD to have chance to knock the missile down before it MIRVs.

Edited by WhatIsSol, 10 December 2016 - 09:08 PM.


Spud_Dastardly #12 Posted 10 December 2016 - 04:23 AM

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Thanks for that fix.  I'll include it in my bug fixes mod on Steam.

Get 5X - The Ultimate Balance Mod on Steam or on Nexus Mods!

 


KasiKuula #13 Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:50 AM

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MIRV should have 200% total missile damage, split to 4 missiles with 50% damage each just before entering to target ships point defence range. Idea of MIRV is to overwhelm target ship missile defense.



Exoclyps #14 Posted 10 December 2016 - 11:10 AM

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Yeah, if missiles are shot down before the split, MIRV is really nerfed tbh.

 

In all honesty I thought neither video was good setting. First one both missiles hit. Second one both missiles gets shot down. The good balance here is one where only first missile gets shot down and the 2nd manage to mirv and hit the ship.



WhatIsSol #15 Posted 10 December 2016 - 08:01 PM

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This was just to prove currently in the game MIRV is making PD worthless for the most part.   Honestly I think this is due to how the split is happening - the whole go back to firing ship.   If they fix that this setting might become meaningless, we shall see when or if they patch that.  

 

The missiles in that video never had a chance in this testing.

 

They are nuclear missiles being fired at a beefed up pirate ship that had something like 6 Point Defense Phasors and the best targeting computer the game has.   That is why in the second video it shot down both missiles.   In normal play this would not happen.

 

 



WhatIsSol #16 Posted 10 December 2016 - 08:27 PM

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UPDATE: Currently as it stands in the game MIRV fragements are NOT targetable by point defense at all.   Video showing this:  http://orderofmidnig...seFragments.mp4

 

In this one I made the MIRV missile fragements shortly after firing - notice at the end the target ship never fires a single PD weapon against them. 

 

This is a code issue inside the game

 

Hopefully they will fix the split location and the PD targeting issue in the next patch - please


Edited by WhatIsSol, 13 December 2016 - 03:19 AM.


Carl #17 Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:02 PM

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@WhatIS Sol: Check your first video again. it takes 14 seconds for the fragments to make it to the target after they spawn. no PD in the game is that slow to cool down, the problem is MIRV fragments can't be targeted by PD. Personally i just think all PD needs it;s max rnage increasing, right now the biggest reason massed missile fire is so effective is that each ship on the receiving end is effectively on it's own.


EDIT: You posted while i was typing. I could have told you that though.

 

@Exylops: No, it's not, your getting twice the damage on those that hit for half again the size. Torpedoes take a 25% cooldown increase for the same damage and size factors on their equivalent mod. Getting 4 times the PD difficulty even if you could target the fragments and double the damage for half again the size is hugely undervaluing them comparatively speaking.


Edited by Carl, 10 December 2016 - 09:04 PM.


WhatIsSol #18 Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:05 PM

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ECM does work against fragments, http://orderofmidnight.com/MOO/ECM.mp4

 

In this video the pirate ship has an ECM jammer - and that jammer has been upgraded to a absurd missile defense rating.   The fragements just "can't touch this"



WhatIsSol #19 Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:19 PM

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@ Carl, thanks for your clarification - I updated my earlier posting to say they are immune.   I was hoping the videos makes the issues really clear and they must if you could prove that PD immune issue from the timing inside them on the first video.

 

Hoping the developers find them equally as useful in finding the issue. 



Carl #20 Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:33 PM

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Like i said i wrote that while you made post 16 of this thread and i didn't see that till after i posted what i wrote i 17.





Also tagged with Bug, MIRV, Missiles, Known Issue

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