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Bug MIRV Missiles Known Issue

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Kilo69 #21 Posted 13 December 2016 - 05:20 PM

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Nice work WhatIsSol!  Hope they can finally squash this bug as it's making MIRV missiles insanely OP.

 

In my mind they should Split just before PD range, but PD should be able to target each warhead.

 

The concept is the split creates an overwhemling numbers of target and the PD can't shoot them all down, well unless you have some serious level of PD weapons.  In which case you'd be lacking in main/heavy weapons to fight with.

 

Hopefully they can fix the targetting of fragments and you already found a way patching the EXE to change the visual deployment bug so they should also be able to do that quickly as well.

 

Thanks for you time, this small bug is hard to grasp without those videos and your testing process to narrow down the exact problems



WhatIsSol #22 Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:22 PM

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@ Kilo69:  Agree 100% with your opinion on what should happen.  

 

Just to be clear what we are saying:

 

Scenario Base - Defending ship has one point defense weapons with 100% hit and kill chance.

 

Scenario 1:  Attacker fires a single non-mirv missile at defender.  This missile is intercepted and destroyed by defender's PD.

Scenario 2: Attacker fires a single mirv missile at defender,  It splits before entering PD range into 4 fragments.  Defender's PD hits and kill 1 fragment and the other 3 hit the defender.  PD Defense worked but was overwhelmed.

 

Unfortunately there is no way in the yaml files to make the above happen.  So until we get a code fix - making so PD can take down a missile before it MIRVs seemed like a better solution to me than to just have the MIRV missiles be a "I win option" which they currently are. 

 

Just an FYI - that fix I did for the MIRV location was not just visual it also shortens the time for the fragments to hit so it actually changes how the battle plays out.

 

MIRV missiles also I think are one of the reasons people are complaining about hey I simulate the combat and I lose, but if I watch it I win.  In the simulated code PD is working against MIRV.  Since it is just doing some raw number crunching.

 

 

 

 


Edited by WhatIsSol, 13 December 2016 - 06:23 PM.


Kilo69 #23 Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:24 PM

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View PostWhatIsSol, on 13 December 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

 

MIRV missiles also I think are one of the reasons people are complaining about hey I simulate the combat and I lose, but if I watch it I win.  In the simulated code PD is working against MIRV.  Since it is just doing some raw number crunching.

 

 

 

 

 

That would be an interesting but hard to prove thought on the auto vs auto watched


Edited by Kilo69, 13 December 2016 - 06:25 PM.


WhatIsSol #24 Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:34 PM

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It is not really a thought but an examination of the game logic.    

 

The game calculates missile efficiency in the simulated combat.  It uses a formula of # of missiles (not on cooldown) times the HP of the missiles minus the point defense damage per second of the defender fleet.   At this point of the calculations it does not check for mirv.    That gives it a number of missiles that hit the targets.  Only at that point does it look at MIRV status and increase missile damage.

 

Hope this does not come off as being augmentative - I'm not trying to be that just trying to say it was more than a thought, I would say I'm 90+% certain this is what is happening.

 

Point of clarification - this would just be one reason why simulated vs watched yields different results.

 


Edited by WhatIsSol, 13 December 2016 - 07:02 PM.


WhatIsSol #25 Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:42 PM

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New Videos showing Auto vs Watched.   Default games settings (zero mods) - other than a beefed up pirate mod.  The two pirate ships have x3 normal hit points, best targeting computer, 3 pirate attack cannons, and 10 point defense phasors each.

 

My frigate has a single MIRV nuclear missile and a ton of anti-missile rockets.

 

Ran the combat 5 times each.  I won zero of the automated battles and 100% of the battles I watched and controlled.  Just posted a single video of each encounter.

 

http://www.orderofmi...om/MOO/Auto.mp4
http://www.orderofmi...m/MOO/Watch.mp4

 

If you note in the watch video the first missile I fired was actually taking out by Point Defense - not sure if that was from the other ship or it just got extremely lucky (I have seen the normal settings extremely rarely take out a MIRV missile BEFORE it splits using phasor PD).   As you can see I moved to avoid this situation.

 

I uploaded a newer one of the watched combat it is cleaner (shows the action better) - not as jumpy.

 


Edited by WhatIsSol, 13 December 2016 - 11:54 PM.


iRedEarth #26 Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:29 AM

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While trying out fighter bay's for the first time I had two titan carriers against an AI fleet. It gave about even odds of me winning, but playing the battle I didn't stand a chance. So I'm wondering what the simulator is doing that the real battle isnt with my fighters.

Carl #27 Posted 14 December 2016 - 02:53 PM

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I'm pretty sure the fighters are bugged loadouts atm from looking at the files. but need to investigate more.

iRedEarth #28 Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:30 PM

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View PostCarl, on 14 December 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the fighters are bugged loadouts atm from looking at the files. but need to investigate more.

Well, here's my investigation:

First, they had a range of 60 which I didn't expect. That was less than the range of most heavy guns, so the ship I thought would sit back and hope nothing gets to it had to fly right into the fight. Fighter also seem to lack any dauntless guidence system effect. My swarm of 60+ heavy fighter killed one figate and called it a day. I tried to counteract that by spreading the fighter bays into multiple weapon slots and target seperate ships but that seemed to cause a bug where only one fighter bay would launch but the rest would still enter cooldown mode. And I sware sometimes they'd just fly in a ball like a swarm of bugs in space around nothing.



Carl #29 Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:42 PM

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Was a bit rushed for time before so here's the code so you can see what i'm talking about.

 

        ####FIGHTERS
          - key: design_fighter
            name: SHIP_DESIGN_FIGHTER
            hull: hull_fighter
            baseSystems:
                armor: shipslot_armor
                drive: shipslot_drive
                computer: shipslot_computer
            pointDefense:
                shipmodule: shipmodulesubtype_cannon
                quantity: 1
          - key: design_bomber
            name: SHIP_DESIGN_BOMBER
            hull: hull_bomber
            baseSystems:
                armor: shipslot_armor
                drive: shipslot_drive
                computer: shipslot_computer
            bombPayload:
                shipmodule: shipmodulesubtype_bomb
                quantity: 1
          - key: design_heavy_fighter
            name: SHIP_DESIGN_heavy_FIGHTER
            hull: hull_heavy_fighter
            baseSystems:
                armor: shipslot_armor
                drive: shipslot_drive
                computer: shipslot_computer
            pointDefense:
                shipmodule: shipmodulesubtype_cannon
                quantity: 1
            bombPayload:
                shipmodule: shipmodulesubtype_bomb
                quantity: 1

 

As you can see the bomber mounts a bomb, not a torpedoe, the fighter mounts only PD, and the heavy fighter gets a bomb and a cannon. And none of them get more than 1. Ergo they don't do too well when given anything to shoot at as they're chronically under armed. Given i seem to recall bomber do shoot torpedoes though i think somthing is up, not sure what.

 

Also no shields.


Edited by Carl, 14 December 2016 - 07:44 PM.


Carl #30 Posted 14 December 2016 - 08:52 PM

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Ok messing around, looks like PD wepaons on drones shoot at ships instead, however i've confirmed they're shooting bombs at people :0...

WhatIsSol #31 Posted 22 December 2016 - 06:31 AM

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OK here is corrected MIRV, split happens at correct location, defender's PD weapons fire correctly.  This is against the beefed up pirate ship but even beefed up the 3 MIRV nuclear missiles overcome his defenses.

 

http://www.orderofmi...CorrectMIRV.mp4

 


Edited by WhatIsSol, 22 December 2016 - 06:44 AM.


Exoclyps #32 Posted 22 December 2016 - 06:43 AM

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I'd submit it as a bug report in game as well. And I think they got a bug forum over at Steam. Got a feeling they are barely reading these forums at all.

 

That said, I think you hit the nail with your fix. Looks like a perfect balance from all the videos you've provided so far.


Edited by Exoclyps, 22 December 2016 - 06:44 AM.


WhatIsSol #33 Posted 22 December 2016 - 06:53 AM

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I don't see a steam bug forum ?  Is that maybe only for people that purchased it on steam - my copy was purchased on GOG.

 

I filled a bug report in game called MIRV w/fix.  In the notes I included the exact details of what I did to correct, code location and values I adjusted.  Hopefully that will allow them to patch this quickly.

 

I do think I made the fragments too tough - currently in the that video they are as well defended as the main missile, seems to me they should be a little weaker.


Edited by WhatIsSol, 22 December 2016 - 07:20 AM.


WhatIsSol #34 Posted 22 December 2016 - 07:13 AM

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I think I like this one  better.  In this one I nerfed the fragments.  In the first one the fragments have the same armor and hitpoints of the main missile.  In this video any hit kills them.  You can see that of the 3 MIRV missiles they fragmented into 12 fragments and the pirate's 10 PD phasors took out 10 leaving 2 to hit the ship.  Please recall that this pirate also has the best computer.

 

http://www.orderofmi...rrectMIRV-2.mp4

 

Maybe they should have 1/4 the hp of the main missile?  


Edited by WhatIsSol, 22 December 2016 - 07:20 AM.


Carl #35 Posted 22 December 2016 - 09:06 AM

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well bear in mind you can only kill one missile per PD firing.

WhatIsSol #36 Posted 22 December 2016 - 09:49 AM

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Yeah the 2nd video, my frigate has 3 MIRV Missiles against a defender that has 10 Point Defense weapons that basically have a 100% hit and kill chance.   The first missile MIRVs into 4 fragments, defender fires 4 PD and kills all fragments.  The 2nd missile MIRVs into 4 fragments and is likewise destroyed.    When the last missile MIRVs the defender has only 2 PD weapon that have not fired.  It fires them and kills 2 of the 4 fragments.  The remaining 2 hit the defender.

 

That is probably good enough it really shows the MIRV missile overcoming the target's PD.   Anyway hoping they patch this quickly so I can move onto the next issue.

 

 

 



Exoclyps #37 Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:13 AM

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That's might odd. I can swear it was there earlier. Even had someone ask this guy who made a bug report at the main forum at steam to go there and even provided a link. Checking that link I got an error.... yet when I copied the link now the page worked. So hopefully it's there when you check:

 

http://steamcommunit...discussions/10/

 

I think that the fragments only have 1/4th of the main missile, heck perhaps even less, makes perfect sense. Why would a small piece of the missile be as sturdy as the main thing?

 



WhatIsSol #38 Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:22 AM

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That just tells me no forum available.  

 

Sorry!

An error was encountered while processing your request:
 

No forum available



Exoclyps #39 Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:25 AM

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Are you logged into your steam account? Seems that you need to be logged in.

 

But yeah, perhaps you need to have the game registered for it to show then.


Edited by Exoclyps, 22 December 2016 - 11:26 AM.


WhatIsSol #40 Posted 22 December 2016 - 01:06 PM

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All well no bug forum for me - that is too bad, since I'm actually having a bit of fun tracking down issues right now.   Actually I'm just on vacation and bored.   Hate being bored.





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