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Terraforming and You


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Exoclyps #1 Posted 18 December 2016 - 05:09 AM

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So after playing yet another game past 300 turns I just realized something.

 

The Silicoids homeworld is Volcanic.

The Trilarian homeworld is Terran.

The Psilon homeworld is Terran.

 

My whole empire is Gaia.

 

Shouldn't the Silicoids be living on an inferno planet by now?

Shouldn't the Trilarians be living on Ocean worlds?

Shouldn't the Psilons have been able to make their world Gaia by now?

 

The only race that actually only got a bunch of by now Gaia is the Elerians.

 

So I really wanted to make a mod to deal with this, it kind of ruins the fun. Figured I'd make a thread here to see if I could get some feedback in other peoples experience to easier deal with this.

 

- My first concern is that I think the AI does not priorities Terraforming high enough. Personally I priorities it over early research and food production when I can. But the AI seems not to do that. So higher terraforming priority in the AI could possible improve things perhaps?

 

- If we priorities it over food then the issue that not enough population to actually perform the terraforming appear. Also if on a poor planet, then the terraforming can take a very long time. What do you guys think is a good balance of things?

 

- Silicoids not having an Inferno homeworld is a huge issue. I'd want to see all the Silicoid planets as Infernos over time, that would give the game flavor. To reach this goal we must understand what makes a good terraform in the eyes of the Silicoids. My guess is that they see Terran worlds as better worlds than inferno worlds and without any way to actually change the world to terran it stays stuck. One thing I'd like to try here is to double the population of Inferno worlds, which is doable.

 

Also increased possibilities for the Silicoids to turn any world into an inferno world would also improve on this, I'd imagine a tech that turns any world into Volcano then later you can terraform those to Infernos. The problem that arises is that they would most probably never use the tech that turns the world into volcano in the first place, making the inferno worlds very limited unless we allow them to turn any world into an inferno world. Thoughts on that approach?

 

- The problem with the Psilons might be that they got such high rate of research so that they never feel that they have caught up enough to start terraforming, so as a result they use their underdeveloped planets to just research new stuffs that they never seem to be able to actually properly build. Of course this issue might be related to my change to the game where I've increased research costs quite a lot.

 

So how do we force a race that would rather just research NOW than build up a planet to research 3 folds later to actually be smart about their approach?

 

Also anyone know specifics about what the different settings in GlobalsAI.yaml does? I kinda get the idea, but "base" kinda got me lost.

 

Edit: Silicoids not getting inferno seems to be a mod issue on my end where the tech was not available for them. Still the visual goal I have in mind for them stands.


Edited by Exoclyps, 18 December 2016 - 06:37 AM.


Exoclyps #2 Posted 18 December 2016 - 07:00 AM

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So my first wave of idea how to make things more interesting is a change to Uber Biomes.

 

I'd like to split up the Uber Transformation in three techs. For example we have the Inferno Transformation. With Spuds mod installed I can transform Volcanic, Barren and Terran to Inferno for 350 in cost.

My goal here would be to split this up with different costs. For example:
- Volcano to Inferno, cost 150.

- Barren to Inferno, cost 350.

- Anything Else to Inferno, cost 500. Maybe this is too cheap? But still just a 75% max pop so I think it's fairly fair cost.

 

Inferno would also get a +50% pop increase that have no cell attached to them. What do you guys think about this?

 

Grassland would be redesigned like:

- Arid to Grassland, cost 150.

- Tundra to Grassland, cost 300.

- Terran to Grassland, cost 350.

 

Tropical would be redesigned like:

- Swamp to Tropical, cost 150.

- Ocean to Tropical, cost 300.

- Terran to Tropical, cost 350.

Identical to Grassland per say, but yeah, if ya guys got any cool ideas, please share!

 

Now, Cavernous is the one I've got the biggest heart for and I kind of wanna make this one unique! It would require to make Subterranean trait more expensive though.

- Arid to Cavernous, cost 250.

- Desert to Cavernous, cost 300.

- Terran to Cavernous, cost 350.

Now the thing with Cavernous is that I want to give them a -20% farm slots (no sun underground, making it harder to farm) BUT! +40% no cell slots. Resulting in 20% extra population compared to a Gaia planet. I actually wanted to give them more production slots, but while possible, it does give the unwanted result of Gaia planets having "unlocked slots" on them, which I wanna avoid. Edit: Another thing we can do is increase the pollution cap/reduction for them, considerting they are underground and thus kind of already got a semi-deep-core-waste thingy.

 

So what do you guys think of my ideas here?


Edited by Exoclyps, 18 December 2016 - 07:05 AM.


Exoclyps #3 Posted 18 December 2016 - 09:35 AM

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Testing 1!

 

So I tested with implementing the Inferno Terraforming as proposed above! Initial thoughts is that 150 cost is too cheap, especially if I boost max population which I haven't done yet. Maybe 200 or 250 is better here. However the option to turn ANY planet into inferno is very fun and something I wanna work with!

 

Also unsure if early game anything to inferno might not be a bit too overpowered, costs aside. Also might be due to the fact that I got Tiny Ultra Rich and Tiny Rich with Qualtz next to my starting zone that makes it feel a bit strong. I'm considering making Terraforming a requirement to be able to do the "Anything Else" to Inferno Terraforming to balance things out a bit. This would however require editing the "Race Traits" a bit, which then would increase compatibility issues. Then again, the things I wanna do with Cavernous got the same issue.



Laegad #4 Posted 18 December 2016 - 11:40 AM

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Following this thread...

 



Exoclyps #5 Posted 18 December 2016 - 01:32 PM

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Glad you're interested!

So currently debating between 150 or 200 on the base cost. The numbers I currently got prepared for my next testing is:

 

Inferno

Volcano to Inferno - 200

Barren to Inferno - 300

Toxic/Radiated to Inferno - 350

Dry World to Inferno - 425

Wet World to Inferno - 500

 

This whole setup essentially makes the better worlds the more expensive ones to Terraform. Depending on feedback I might increase the cost slightly. Will have to actually run the numbers real time though!

 

Grassland

Arid to Grassland - 200

Tundra to Grassland - 275

Terran to Grassland - 350

 

Tropical

Swamp to Tropical - 200

Ocean to Tropical - 275

Terran to Tropical - 350

 

Cavernous

Now this one is really one that I wanted to work on as I said before. I really missed the Subterranean trait from MoO2 so want to make this one the "real deal". My current idea is to change it to a mix of Aquatic and Inferno Uber. Choose the trait and you start with Cavernous (Imagine it being balanced around the Klackons) like with the Aqua Trait. It does not treat other planets differently though, but lets you terraform any kind of biome to a Cavernous planet.

 

Of course planets like Ocean would be a bit more of a problem here, and I'm debating when-either to just increase the cost or force the race to first terraform it to Terran. Doing a terraform that would make it "dryer" would probably not function well with the AI though, since those planets are generally worse.

 

The current idea is to give it a pretty mediocre farming performance but in return have a maxed production and good pollution resistance, of course with extra max pop.

 

Once I got this worked out I'll play a few games with them and see how it performs. Also got a few tweaks to the AI's priority to make terraforming a higher priority. Should make games on higher difficulties a lot harder. Might make lower difficulties easier if they are stuck terraforming for to long though.


Edited by Exoclyps, 18 December 2016 - 01:33 PM.


Exoclyps #6 Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:47 AM

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So I've been thinking a bit on how to make it more straightforward without actually just making the Terraforms instantly go to the Uber Biome.

 

In the case of Inferno I think it's cool since I put the max population below that of a Gaia planet, so it's not always a straight up mega-boost. The problem comes with the other Ubers though. What if the Barren world turns into Tundra and all you wanted is Dessert? Also a direct terraform from Tundra to Grassland actually means we're skipping the C-Class and jump straight from D to A/B. Almost a bit too fun for the player with the Uber. You end up wanting it to Terraform to the wet world and not the dry world when you're terraforming a barren world.

 

My approach I'm thinking of, which I also think is doable with current tools, is to create a custom Terraforming set for the Uber Races.

The new terraforms would be custom one way terraforms that replace the current Terraforming. The path available would be:

 

Grassland

Barren to Desert - 200

Desert to Arid - 200

Arid to Grassland - 200

 

Tundra to Arid - 300

Swamp to Terran - 250

Ocean to Terran - 250

Terran to Grassland - 350

 

Tropical

Barren to Tundra - 200

Tundra to Swamp - 200

Swamp to Tropical - 200

 

Desert to Swamp - 400

Arid to Terran - 250

Ocean to Tropical - 300

Terran to Tropical - 350

 

Cavernous

Cavernous would essentially follow the same path as Grassland, but replaces Grassland with Cavernous.

 

Also my current design for Cavernous is

biomeSoilFactor: 2.5 (Gaia is 4, Ocean for the Aquatic Races are 2.5)

viableFarmingFactor: 0.8 (Terran is also 0.8 while Gaia is 1. Resulting in 20% less farming slots)

viableIndustryFactor: 1.6 (Gaia is 1. The 1.6 essentially just adds 0.6 in no-cell slots as you can't go past 1 with cell slots. The result in game is 25% extra population compared to Gaia)

pollutionAbsorption: 50 (In my game I run with heavily modified pollution system, so a 50 here is a more like100 in an unmodded game, which I'd retune it to when releasing the "bare version")

 

Cavernous compared to Ocean gives you 20% less farming slots but a 25% extra total population. Making it the worst farming planet out of all Ubers. But since the Pollution Absorption is increased it's the 2nd best planet in the game for production after Inferno.



Exoclyps #7 Posted 19 December 2016 - 08:08 AM

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So I'm starting to get a good idea on how I want to line things up. I've dropped the idea of replacing the Terraforming tech altogether due to the fact I wasn't able to come up with a nice looking way to do it. I've instead come up with a few "sub techs" that lets you dry out or increase the humidity of a planet if you so desire. I've included my current table of content of ideas. Also included Spud's mod for reference since I got his awesome mod installed.

 

    Vanilla Spud   eXo Cost   Target Biome   Unlocks At    
Lava Breather   Volcanic Volcanic   Volcanic 200   Inferno   Xenobiotics    
Inferno     Barren   Barren 300   -   -    
      Terran   Desert 300   -   -    
          Toxic 350   -   -    
          Rad 350   -   -    
          Arid 425   -   -    
          Grassland 425   -   -    
          Terran 425   -   -    
          Tropical 500   -   -    
          Ocean 500   -   -    
                         
Plains Dweller   Arid Arid   Arid 200   Grassland   Xenobiotics   Terraform Naming
Grassland     Tundra   Terran 250   -   -    
      Terran                  
          Barren 200   Desert   Terraforming   Desiccative Terraforming
          Tundra 400   Arid   -   -
                        Desiccative Terraforming is perfomed with the focus on creating a dry climate on the planet.
Jungle Creature   Swamp Swamp   Swamp 200   Tropical   Xenobiotics    
Tropical     Ocean   Ocean 300   -   -    
      Terran   Terran 350   -   -    
                         
          Barren 200   Tundra   Terraforming   Humidificative Terraforming
          Desert 400   Swamp   -   -
                        Humidificative Terraforming is performed with a focus on creating a humid climate on the planet.
Subterranean   Desert Desert   Desert 300   Cavernous   Xenobiotics    
Cavernous   Arid Arid   Arid 250   -   -    
      Terran   Terran 350   -   -    
                         
          Tundra 500   Cavernous   Terraforming   Alternatively to going the direct part I could add the Desiccative Terraforming to the Subterranean Race as well.
          Swamp 450   -   -    


Exoclyps #8 Posted 19 December 2016 - 09:24 AM

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So something I would love some feedback on is the Desiccative Terraforming and the Humidificative Terraforming. Not only is the name very... well, not real words. But that aside.

 

Transforming a Tundra world to Arid makes sense in my head. You heat up and dry the Tundra world a bit and you got an Arid world. So that process makes sense.

 

But a Desert on the other hand would mean inducing a LOT of water into the atmosphere. We are talking turning Tatooine into Dagobah here. And I'm not sure things are as straightforward here. The "Barren to Tundra" terraforming is cool, but yeah, desert on the other hand. So I'm inclined on just dropping that one from the Humidificative Terraforming, wich ofcourse would kind of nerf Tropical compared to Grassland. In return I'm thinking of slightly rebalancing the tropical numbers.

 

After all Tropical currently got 3 biomes to Tropical while Grassland got 2. So Leaving out Desert and keeping other numbers balanced together would be cool. Right?

Also, I'm leaning towards just giving the Subterranean the Desiccative Terraforming. Thoughs?


Edited by Exoclyps, 19 December 2016 - 09:40 AM.


Laegad #9 Posted 19 December 2016 - 02:19 PM

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Well, sorry if i don't post (you seem to be alone in this post);

For this weeks i will be in holliday with a family (like spud), and will access to the forum rarely; until next year...

 



Partythenwork #10 Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:10 AM

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obviously we would all thematically enjoy the idea of terraforming planets more towards benefiting a particular race; however, the way moo was designed was that all planets need to move more towards terran or water planets.

 

so really all each biome is just more slots for production, food, and science (and i think food production?)

are there any other bonus for any particular biomes?  (aside from pollution absorption?)

 

maybe instead of just giving you more slots for a particular biome there should be bonus adjustments for each type of biome depending on your race?



Exoclyps #11 Posted 21 December 2016 - 04:02 AM

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Yeah, I get it's not the most active time around. I'll probably slowly develop on this mod, also had less time to actually try things out myself. Had another mod I wasn't able to update yet since patch as I was away from the computer until now.

 

As far as I know there is really no extra benefits that can be granted to biomes. You could create biome specific buildings though, but not sure how it works when/if you upgrade the biome later. Like for example Terrans and Mrrshan would live on Arid worlds by their lore, however the farming there is so low that it would cripple their start. The solution could be to create a specific farm structure that can only be built on arid worlds that gives +1 per cell. While I've tested the building itself with good success, I've yet to test what happens if you later upgrade the biome.

 

Ultimately I want to make all biomes unique. With the tools provided, the ways they can be made unique is very limited atm. But I do have a few ideas, and would love any idea to push things further, especially in making Tropical and Grassland more distinct from each other. Also with the Uber Biomes, they are the "end biome", so we've got less worries when it comes to adding structures there as we don't really have to care about the structure sticking in case of a biome change really, as those would be rare at best.

 

Inferno would get a really high pollution reduction, to the point that you'll never have to worry about pollution, as well as max production with 50% more no-cell slots, giving them a 75% of max. This is actually the same amount of population slots as a terran world. To make it more unique, we could perhaps add a structure down the line that can only be built on Inferno worlds, any suggestion here would be awesome. But yet again, need to keep things balanced, and perhaps structures is something that can be looked into a further version as well.

 

Cavernous would get a slight pollution reduction. I'm thinking on the lines with a barren world, in return the food output is limited. I've currently set it at 80% slots, the same as terran, with the food output at 2.5 same as an ocean world. You'd need a race with +food production to effectively compete in growth on such a world (Gaia is 60% higher at 4, but with buildings the difference is smaller). However to balance things out you're getting extra nocell slots giving a total of +25% (maybe a total of +20% is more balanced? MoO2 had +40%). I like the changes made here to be honest as it finally provides a world with a subterranean feel to it. Any feedback on numbers would be awesome though.

 

Grassland and Tropical though are essentially identical to Gaia worlds. In an unmodded game they would get a slight higher pollution reduction with a slightly less food production. Personally I don't feel this is the way to go and really want to make them more unique, like how Inferno and Cavernous manage to become. Currently they are only getting their real uniqueness from the way you reach them and that they are generally slightly faster to get to the end biome. I also created a terraform bonus tech that lets you be more specific in your terraforming path. But these are mere tools to the goal and the goal is what I really wanna freshen up.

 

Maybe  here is where an unique building would come into play? Too good of a building and it'd get to strong and we'd have to rethink things. Perhaps give them some upgrades to some regular buildings? That can be done. Taking Civ into consideration here, Jungle would be research and Grassland food? Then again... Sakkra getting a research bonus is kinda, nah. I'm open to suggestions here though.

 

Also in terms of biome bonuses in earlier games, I think the devs actually tried it out. There is leftover things like a research structures for radiated and so on, but it seems they removed it since they didn't want upgrading your biome to be a bad choice. It's from these stuffs I actually learned it was possible to create unique buildings for your biome. Adding unique stuffs for the "final biomes" though would be totally fine imo as you'd not have the "upgrade is a bad choice" issue. Race specific stuffs is impossible to mod though I think. Best we can do there is attach tech to specific traits really.



diehardtwinsfan #12 Posted 21 December 2016 - 07:46 PM

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The devs badly need to fix the Silicoids.  The entire race is a pushover.  Problem number one is that they are stuck with Terran race biome stats on their volcanic planets, so max pop for Silicoids is greatly reduced on a volcano, even though it's their natural habitat.  They cannot de-terraform planets to volcanic either. Instead, to grow, they have to terraform to Gaia just like the rest of us, requiring pollution techs even though they are supposedly immune to pollution.  Finally, their growth rate is too slow. It needs to be slower than a standard race, no doubt, but it's so slow right now that they never get a fighting chance in any game I play.  They always get eliminated.

Partythenwork #13 Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:28 PM

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i think the simple solution would be to make the uber worlds better than gaia worlds.

 



Exoclyps #14 Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:58 AM

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diehardtwinsfan

The way I made it current, Inferno is set at same population as Terraforming, which is actually 50% more than in an unmodded game. The upside is that they are actually able to turn ANY planet into an inferno planet, which means they will reach the top number a lot faster. Imagine humans being able to turn a barren world into a terran world right of the bat? Any other form of terraforming and the AI will most probably not use it. Who'd want to make their world worse? So all I can do really is a setup where you improve the world over time.

 

If I where to increase the max pop to say 100% it would make the inferno uber-planets a bit overpowered unless I made it a lot harder to reach Inferno Planet status. Ideally I the devs should have really thrown things around. The following is impossible to do with modding, but it how I would have loved things to have been:

Lava Breathers - Gaia worlds are like barren worlds. Near 0 population growth, they can't breath the air so there is only limited locations where they can live. They would have to do a reverse terraforming where they change it to Terran, then Arid, then Desert, then Volcanic and finally Inferno. Maybe a slightly shorter process. As they do it would be able to live on more and more locations. Once Inferno it would also boost their population growth compared to the mushy Gaia worlds that tends to start growing on their bodies and stuff.

 

I suppose I could add a building that can only be built on Inferno Worlds that increase population growth slightly, to stimulate the extra growth on their perfect worlds?

 

Subterranean - I would really have liked it to be a lot closer to MoO2. Rather than just converting it straight out to a cavernous world they would be able to build tunnels in any biome and thus increase the max population it can hold. After that they would be able to do some other terraforming stuffs to make it perfect. Like an Ocean world would have very limited locations to build tunnels in and thus the bonus would be very small. However a barren world would have high pop increase, but the farming would still be limited. Hence you'd want to add some humidity to the world to increase the farming output.

 

The best compromise that I was able to come up with here was an end-goal that serves this. I'm actually quite happy with how the Biome is. GOOD NEWS THOUGH! First test I must have messed up something. But figured I'd do another test before I wrote it would not be possible, but it actually is possible to make custom biomes. This is GOOD stuffs. I could now actually make a "Cavernous Barren" world for example. This opens up a lot of doors!

 

Grassland - How to make the uber world more unique I've actually yet to come up with a good idea to be honest. I did kind of want to make Arid worlds have higher food output just for these races though. It is actually possible with a building, but ultimately it should have been built in like with the Ocean worlds for Aquatic getting built in bonuses.

 

Tropical - Another one that I'm honestly unsure what is the best thing here and mostly these two worlds is more about the path being easier rather than the goal being super. Tropical is actually currently slightly harder to reach than the Grassland, but in return the wet worlds generally actually have better food output. I'm actually thinking of increasing the food output on the Tropical Worlds to 4.5 (Gaia being 4) in an attempt to stimulate the Sakkras rapid growth that we so love about them.

 

Partythenwork

The problem with just making them better is that it kind of removes the fun. The biggest problem currently with the non-inferno ubers is that they are identical to each other. It's just a different means of reaching the goal, and even that one is very limited currently, to the point it's just not worth picking them.

 

What I want to do is streamline the process of reaching your Uber. Like for Grassland is to make it so that you always terraform into a dry world to make sure that you can reach it quicker. The thing with Dry worlds though is that they are essentially a weaker version of the wet worlds. The problem I'm actually having here is that the game actually prefers the normal terraforming over the the dry terraforming that I created, even if the dry one is half price. I think it's because that "Barren to Desert or Tundra" is considered better than "Barren to Desert". Or perhaps the game actually knew it was going to become a Tundra world and thus considered the normal terraforming better (never checked what the normal would terraform to). While in short term it was, long term it's not for the race.

 

Anyways, my approach here is to make all the Ubers different, with the Goal of them being better for some playstyles/races. Hard balance to strike, especially with the inferno worlds due to the limitations we're having there.



Partythenwork #15 Posted 22 December 2016 - 06:12 PM

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when i was looking at how the biome are organized maybe it would be better to arrange it in this fashion

                - biome_gaia  (unique only orion)
                
                - biome_ocean
                    -> - biome_terran
                - biome_swamp
                    -> - biome_tropical
                - biome_tundra
                    -> - biome_grassland
                - biome_desert
                    -> - biome_arid
                - biome_barren
                    -> - biome_cavernous
                - biome_volcanic
                    -> - biome_inferno

 

                - biome_toxic
                - biome_radiated

 

 

the -> would be mean that is an uber version of that type of world.  so like a terran biome is an uber version of say an ocean.  a inferno is an uber version of volcanic.

terraforming would go from volcanic -> barren -> desert -> tundra -> swamp -> ocean

vulcanforming would go from ocean -> swamp -> tundra -> desert -> barren -> volcanic

 

when you terraform you increase the food slots and decrease the production slots and you decrease the pollution absorption with ocean having the highest number of food slots and volcanic with none, but ocean would have the lowest number of production slots.  vulcanforming would be the opposite.  vulcanforming you would increase the number of production slots, decrease the number of food slots, and you increase the pollution absorption.

 

toxic and radiated would work as before and move you to barren status.
 

uber version for any level would merely just add bonus slots across the board for science, food, and production and pollution absorption being the same.

 

 

anyhow that's just my two cents on how it should work.  thoughts? comments?



Exoclyps #16 Posted 23 December 2016 - 09:33 AM

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Interesting approach about making Gaia unique to Orion and gave me thoughts about some unique Orion biome, even if your full approach would not be used.

 

So if I understand it correctly, you want to make Arid a new Uber Biome? Currently it's just another terraforming along the way. What race would be living on this planet?

 

I'm honestly not sure though about taking away Gaia as the final stage since you want to start on terran and as well have the option to upgrade your planet once, I personally like that. However giving Orion an unique Supreme Biome that surpasses all other would be an interesting approach.

 

There is also this thing that for say Humans I'd say a Swamp World is better fitting than an Ocean World. Meaning you'd not really want to terraform into an Ocean World in the first place.

 

On your Vulcanforming. I personally think this kind of approach is very interesting in idea. It's how it should be, they should need to first kind of dry out the planet, kill the atmosphere and the living things before they turn it into an Inferno Heaven. The problem is that as a mod, we can't make it in a satisfactory way.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I would love if Lava Breathers treat Gaia worlds as Barren worlds since all those organisms and yucky things just starts growing on their bodies and lets not talk about the air, it's like being stuck underwater. And as such they would have a very limited population on the planet. So as they Vulcanform as you called it, they would get higher population. However with current modding tools doing something like this is currently impossible and you'd ask them to gradually reduce the max pop until we finally can turn it into an inferno world where the max pop is again increased.


I really want to see a setup where you have 5 different terraforming path. The current and 4 unique based on the Uber you choose. Currently a very hard thing to balance since quite frankly... well above issue. And I also had the problem with my dry terraforming reporting inferior to the normal terraforming probably due to the target planet being worse... for a human that is. Which probably will result in the AI using the normal terraforming even if the dry one is cheaper. Might have to remove terraforming from the tech tree to resolve that issue. A complicated mess.

 

What the Devs really need to do is open up and softcode the system that they are using for Aquatic, so that we can create custom cell unlocks based on your uber biome. If they would do this, all of sudden things changes drastically. But for now, all we can do is try be creative about the patch and final destination. And even that's showing to be hard task to complete.

 

Heck, I think my approach of adding extra non-cells slots is not even working properly. While I had no problems when playing as the race, as soon as the race is an AI race I get the "never-ending turn" issue the turn their population increases by one.



Exoclyps #17 Posted 23 December 2016 - 10:07 AM

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So going forward...

 

I like the idea of giving Orion a super-biome that no other planet can have. But I also had the issue that if unlocking beyond max capacity caused the bug when the AI is playing the race. Another thing I was afraid of was that if I increased the max pop on the planets and just reduced Gaia to have less that Aquatic would unlock the new max and become overpowered. However in my first test on that it worked out way better than I could have hoped. It actually seems that rather they had added some multiplier to the actual biome. Let me explain.

 

Aquatic on Ocean world would get 16/16 on medium before change. I increased max population by 50% and was afraid they would get 24/24 now. However for some reason they are actually getting 18/24. Which is a number I can live with. Will need to do some more testing and see how their numbers on Terran (suggest same as Ocean so far) and Gaia turns out.

 

So I was able to do here is with an increase in 50% on farm and production slots is that now while Gaia will have 1/3rd of the slots permanently locked, which is something I really wanted to avoid we're actually able to give for example Inferno 150% production slots. This is +50% production at the cost of less max population. Might need to tweak the numbers. I also gave Subterranean the same lovely stuffs, 50% extra production slots but with 20% less food slots compared to Gaia. Still, this might be a bit overpowered down the road and could need some balancing. This also opens up the door to make an Super-Gaia world for Orion to make that one really rewarding. Currently any toxic planet can become "Orion 2" pretty much.

 

This approach also fixed my issue with never-ending turn for Subterranean races. But yeah, balancing is still something that needs to be done here, but I think this approach opens up quite a few doors to make the ubers more interesting and a huge part of your race.

 

Edit: After comparing Aqua Race and normal race on a few planets it seems that the "extra" bonus they got was due to rounding errors and the game treats Ocean and Terrans as the Gaia Biome (so modifications there effect them, yay) and does not simply just unlocks a preset number. Which is good news! Just means I have to tweak my numbers slightly. Writing 0.67 seems to have unlocked 1/3rd +1 of max slots.


Edited by Exoclyps, 23 December 2016 - 10:15 AM.


Partythenwork #18 Posted 23 December 2016 - 01:39 PM

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a lot of the logic of the terraforms are discussed in this thread:
https://steamcommuni...s/?id=637440060

so my question is if you made all of the uber planets CLASS A what does that do?  or rather what do the planet CLASSES do?  because it looks like the farming and production slots are all effected by the values
viableFarmingFactor:
viableIndustryFactor:

 

for the volcanic biome i set the viableindustryfactor to 2 and for the inferno i set it to 4.  looks like you get the max size for the planet right there.



Exoclyps #19 Posted 23 December 2016 - 01:55 PM

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Quite a few things have changed from then, and the Ubers are still pretty much the same there. Also seems that we used to have a Fungi that made things more interesting, which we no longer have.

 

Setting ViableIndeustryFactor to 2 would mean you get max pop for the size of the planet (Huge = 24), setting it at 4 means you're getting a whooping 48. Now if things worked as simple as that, awesome. Maybe it was another issue for me, but what I'd love is if you can test with Silicoids being set as AI and see if you can get pass the turn they grow a pop. That's where the game stops for me. Hence why I had to resort to increasing the planet max to make things work.

 

I think the classes just is how many dots you get in the "Biome" row on the Planet Info. Might have some more meaning to it, but none that I know of.



Partythenwork #20 Posted 23 December 2016 - 02:53 PM

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View PostPartythenwork, on 23 December 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

a lot of the logic of the terraforms are discussed in this thread:
https://steamcommuni...s/?id=637440060

so my question is if you made all of the uber planets CLASS A what does that do?  or rather what do the planet CLASSES do?  because it looks like the farming and production slots are all effected by the values
viableFarmingFactor:
viableIndustryFactor:

 

for the volcanic biome i set the viableindustryfactor to 2 and for the inferno i set it to 4.  looks like you get the max size for the planet right there.

 

turns out if you just set the viableIndustryfactor to 2 then your planet will have the max population, so max pop is just a ratio of 0 to 2 between the farming factor and the industry factor.

therefore we could have every planet have the max population but have just different ratios between farming and industry as long as they added up to 2.  we could make terraforming more in that fashion where moving up the ladder just adds more spots for farming and moving down the ladder (degrading) adds more for production.






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