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Terraforming and You


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Ghettobible #41 Posted 29 December 2016 - 05:16 AM

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If the clouds for the Swamp planet could be made more purple looking or black, it would look stormy, dark and well swampy. You're right though, it would look boring after a while, but it gets that way with Gaia and Terran planets now. Needs to be more variety.

 

Also had my inferno planet degrade to volcanic due to pollution.. lol



Exoclyps #42 Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:51 AM

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I really wish I could do things like that. Imagine the Swamp World with the Cloads from the "Alternative Barren" world that I posted earlier, it would give the perfect look! Alas, I cannot. The files are hidden inside .assets files that I cannot access. So the best I can do really is to reuse things just as they are. There is a few unused assets, but still none that fits the swampy feel, so my best approach here I'm afraid is just to give them the Tropical World as Uber Biome.

 

In my mod I changed Inferno to have same pollution reduction as Volcanic, so that would not happen here.



Exoclyps #43 Posted 29 December 2016 - 07:45 AM

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So after digging around the files I found something very interesting!

 

Spoiler

 

It's just the galaxy view icon though, no other assets for it. So we'd have to be creative how we use it. My proposed planetary views to use is included, not sure which is better though.

 

There is no "Empire Management" Icon or Banner for when you mouse over the planet though, so need to creative there as well if using this asset.



Exoclyps #44 Posted 29 December 2016 - 08:49 AM

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As for naming on the new Darlok Biome. What about "Fungal"? Not sure how well it works, but Nazin is described to have large mushrooms on the planet, so figured that might work? The looks would be very similar to Tropical, but with a slightly different glow on the galaxy map.

 

Was considering using the "Toxic" glow to make it glow green on the map. Afraid that purple colors, even if I really want that, is impossible.


Edited by Exoclyps, 29 December 2016 - 08:50 AM.


Exoclyps #45 Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:19 PM

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So I've kind of hit another roadblock. I've concluded that there is a very slim chance of neatly creating new biomes.

 

While it is kind of possible to create unique biomes, the problem is that the Planet Info "Biome" tag does not recognize it as that is sadly hardcoded in a bad way. Initially I thought they made it so that by setting the class of the biome it'd get the rating; makes sense, right? But, alas, the game does not recognize new biomes there and will leave it at 0 rating.

 

Here is my attempt of making Orion more interesting.

 

Spoiler

 

This biome having no rating at all could work since it's an unique planet. But for new biomes that races are to use, this is not really an option, I'm afraid. So yeah, we're sadly limited to the biomes that currently exists.



Partythenwork #46 Posted 04 January 2017 - 02:19 PM

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View PostExoclyps, on 04 January 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

So I've kind of hit another roadblock. I've concluded that there is a very slim chance of neatly creating new biomes.

 

While it is kind of possible to create unique biomes, the problem is that the Planet Info "Biome" tag does not recognize it as that is sadly hardcoded in a bad way. Initially I thought they made it so that by setting the class of the biome it'd get the rating; makes sense, right? But, alas, the game does not recognize new biomes there and will leave it at 0 rating.

 

Here is my attempt of making Orion more interesting.

 

Spoiler

 

This biome having no rating at all could work since it's an unique planet. But for new biomes that races are to use, this is not really an option, I'm afraid. So yeah, we're sadly limited to the biomes that currently exists.

 

isn't the biome setting just a 'class setting'?  like a class A, B, C, D, E?

 

 

oh well, nevermind.  does the biome meter matter anyhow?


Edited by Partythenwork, 04 January 2017 - 02:21 PM.


Exoclyps #47 Posted 05 January 2017 - 12:31 AM

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That's what I thought first as well, but it seems that part is just for the text that gets displayed in Empire Management. Quite a crappy way of doing it if you ask me, personally I'd never do things like that as I want maximum flexibility in the stuffs I create.

 

Here is the code inside the swf file that displays the planet info. Even if I'd be able to modify that it's not possible to include that in the mod by normal means. So can't really rely on that.

Block Quote

     public function SetRatingByBiome(_arg1:string, _arg2:boolean=false):void{
        var _local3:number;
        switch (_arg1){
            case "biome_toxic":
            case "biome_radiated":
            case "biome_barren":
            case "biome_volcanic":
                _local3 = R_1;
                break;
            case "biome_desert":
            case "biome_tundra":
                _local3 = R_1_5;
                break;
            case "biome_arid":
            case "biome_swamp":
                _local3 = R_2;
                break;
            case "biome_terran":
            case "biome_ocean":
            case "biome_grassland":
            case "biome_tropical":
            case "biome_inferno":
            case "biome_cavernous":
                _local3 = R_2_5;
                break;
            case "biome_gaia":
                _local3 = R_3;
                break;
            default:
                _local3 = -1;
        };

 

Other than that though I don't actually think that the rating matter actually, so the biome should work properly if I make sure to include it everywhere needed. But I'm unsure I want to create a dozen biomes that has a 0 rating on the meter.

 



Partythenwork #48 Posted 05 January 2017 - 02:34 AM

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View PostExoclyps, on 05 January 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

That's what I thought first as well, but it seems that part is just for the text that gets displayed in Empire Management. Quite a crappy way of doing it if you ask me, personally I'd never do things like that as I want maximum flexibility in the stuffs I create.

 

Here is the code inside the swf file that displays the planet info. Even if I'd be able to modify that it's not possible to include that in the mod by normal means. So can't really rely on that.

 

Other than that though I don't actually think that the rating matter actually, so the biome should work properly if I make sure to include it everywhere needed. But I'm unsure I want to create a dozen biomes that has a 0 rating on the meter.

 

 

interesting how are you able to see the code inside that file?  i can't believe they have it all embedded into a switch case statement!  it should be loaded from a datasource and not hard coded

 

also i am curious to all of the conditions for the colony yaml files is there a repository where you can view all of the attributes?



Exoclyps #49 Posted 05 January 2017 - 06:34 AM

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I used this site: http://www.showmycode.com/
And there I uploaded the Planet.swf file to see what was inside. And yeah, they really should have added a "biome class" tag and looked for that one to determine. Bad approach imo.

 

Not sure about the conditions though.



Exoclyps #50 Posted 05 January 2017 - 08:30 AM

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Okay, the AI is just quite frankly... not smart.

 

They WILL build Toxic Processor no matter what. Be it you're on a poor Volcanic planet or a rich toxic planet.

So I'm considering just changing the Toxic Processor to Restricted to Toxic Biome and then remove the pollution reduction.

In return I'd boost Atmosphere Renewer and Pollution Processor to compensate.

 

Also it seems that the game does not properly recognize specific terraforming tech that doesn't terraform to an Uber.

My latest game the AI would not use Volcanic Cooling and in my current test game, my Desiccative Terraforming is actually causing pollution.

However my alternative Cavernous Transformation are actually working for some reason. Not totally sure what the issue stands though.

 

So I'm considering dropping my Desiccative Terraforming, since the AI don't know how to use it.



Exoclyps #51 Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:49 AM

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Due to the AI being quite frankly retarded I've decided to make a few adaptions. They just can't even come close to competing with the player. You have to hold their hands so they understand how to play.


As a result I've decided to buff farming output on all planets. In return I've reduced farming slots on dryer worlds and increased production slots. Humid worlds are closer to terran in farming output / slots but suffer in production. This move will improve AI population growth, and will hopefully make the game more interesting for the player. Tech that boost farming will be slightly less effective though.


I've also decided to change the Toxic Processor as the post above to reduce the amount of buildings that the AI won't need, yet still insist on building. This will improve AI income as well as productivity. The player will benefit from this change, but far less than the AI, overall making for a slightly more challenging game. This ofcourse assuming everything works as intended, have yet to test it.

 



Exoclyps #52 Posted 05 January 2017 - 10:17 AM

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So my logic is here... take a look at this picture:

 

Spoiler

 

So here I moved one slot of food to production and changed the output to compensate. Boosting the biome overall.

 

The logic behind this change is in the case of a desert... oasis. Nigel River. Even in a desert there is some places that are extremely good for farming. Just that the good farming places are more scarce. So to me it makes more sense that there is less place to farm, but they are still decent. And more places used for production instead as you have more "open space".

 

So here we are more effectively moving towards the "farming world" vs "production world" feeling. I like the approach. Also makes earlier boost for the world better. So for the AI that don't know how to bring 2nd pop with civil transport, it's not as bad.

 

edit: visual size different is due to one of my mods reducing size on the planets. So when I deactivate all mods planets are bigger.


Edited by Exoclyps, 05 January 2017 - 10:23 AM.


Exoclyps #53 Posted 05 January 2017 - 10:33 AM

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On Arid world I did the same. Move 1 slot from farming to Production, but buff output to compensate. Terran at the bottom for comparison. Terran have less production than Arid due to more water that leaves less space to be used for producing things. This change would probably also make Mrrshan more competitive on Arid worlds.

 

Spoiler

 



Partythenwork #54 Posted 05 January 2017 - 05:00 PM

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View PostExoclyps, on 05 January 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

I used this site: http://www.showmycode.com/
And there I uploaded the Planet.swf file to see what was inside. And yeah, they really should have added a "biome class" tag and looked for that one to determine. Bad approach imo.

 

Not sure about the conditions though.

 

hmmm i go to program files (x86)/steam/steamapps/common/Master of Orion/ and search for planet.swf and i don't see any resource named that.

 

i do see a lot of shockwave files (.swf) under the streaming assets folder there, but i don't see the planet.swf  which file did you upload to view the code?

EDIT: nevermind found it.  it is under the folder planetview and planet.swf is right there


Edited by Partythenwork, 05 January 2017 - 05:06 PM.


Exoclyps #55 Posted 08 January 2017 - 06:02 AM

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Yup. Nice dead-end wall! Yay.

 

But yeah, I'm leaning towards using the "Ancient Gaia" biome, besides that shortcoming. The excuse would be that the biome is outside the scopes of available measuring systems and thus returns null. Kind of what we're experiencing here, hehe.

 

Haven't progressed much yet on the Arid vs Swamp biomes in terms of balancing, been quite busy lately.  But my basic idea is to change Desert and Arid so that they have 1 more production slot and 1 less farming slot than now, but with the same total farming output. Meaning that you can quicker get a bit more food and also quicker start producing more things.

 

I'm also messing around with the Solar Kiln that is hidden in the yaml files. My goal is to unlock it for Grassland and Cavernous. Debating if I'd give it to Arid worlds as well. The problem is that if a Gaia "uber" player would build it, it'd probably (haven't tested yet) stop working for them once they upgrade the planet, hence the limitation to only the ubers. The tech would be granted to anyone researching the Deep Sea Cooling tech.

 

Also since the Silicoids would have to research all kinds of useless farming tech down the road - that they would also stupidly build... - I'm considering giving them a new building "Crystalline Basin" that can only be built on Inferno worlds. The idea is that it would be a sort of a "temple" that mimics their "Sacred Basin". It'd increase population growth by 25%. For people who'd conquer the world and get the bonus, the excuse of them also getting the rewards could be that it got some kind of "youth fountain" effect that makes people who visit it healthier. And thus mortality is down, resulting in higher growth.



Exoclyps #56 Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:18 PM

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So going forward in making the galaxy more unique. I've been watching the various races intro movies for inspiration and have noticed a few things.

 

Terran got an Arid world. However I'm not sure I want to act on this. Arid worlds are really harsh to play with as a starter and seeing as Terran hails from earth they would want to live on a Terran/Gaia world ideally, right? So even if they where to get an Arid starting world, they would still prefer the "normal uber", I think. Any thoughts on this?

 

Elerian got an Ocean world. Their lore also speaks a lot about "the shores of...". So I was thinking of giving them Ocean starter with Tropical Uber.

 

Bulrathi seems to have quite a dry world, looks arid to me. However, they are bears. Bears live in the forest! End of story pretty much there. So I let that one go for now.

 

Darlok live in a dark and mushy area. So I've given them the Jungle Creature trait.

 

Meklar's homeworld are actually terran. I've read a lot about how they are supposed to live on some frozen rock due to how they treated the planet. But by the looks of their opening scene, their homeworld is terran. I'm however considering giving them the a "Grassland Uber". The logic here is that they see no use in oceans and would rather have open plains that they can use for construction sites.

 

Gnol seems a bit yellowish. Lastly, we've got Gnol. I really dunno how the Gnolam Homeworld is supposed to be, but by the looks of the initial video, it seem slightly yellowish, suggesting a slightly dryer climate than terran.

 

Any other suggestions? Ideally I'd want 3-4 Grassland/Tropical users. So far I think I've got two Grasslands (Mrrshan and Meklar) and three tropical (Sakkra, Darlok and Elerian). Don't see how the other Ubers can be used, but if anything comes to mind!



trbeier #57 Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:48 PM

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View PostExoclyps, on 11 January 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

So going forward in making the galaxy more unique. I've been watching the various races intro movies for inspiration and have noticed a few things.

 

Terran got an Arid world. However I'm not sure I want to act on this. Arid worlds are really harsh to play with as a starter and seeing as Terran hails from earth they would want to live on a Terran/Gaia world ideally, right? So even if they where to get an Arid starting world, they would still prefer the "normal uber", I think. Any thoughts on this?

 

Well...  From "The Wrath of Kahn" we know that they were sent to a barely m-class planet, but it shifted orbit and became a real hostile desert planet.  Of course they would prefer a Terran / Gaia, but Arid or Desert would be appropriate.  Mind if I use this in my mod too?

 

View PostExoclyps, on 11 January 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

 

Darlok live in a dark and mushy area. So I've given them the Jungle Creature trait.

 

Again, from Star Trek, the Darloks are like the Dominion's Changlings and also similar to the Wraith shapeshifters in the Enterprise TV prequel.  Interestingly enough, both species lived on a rogue planet with no sun, explaining why it is so dark.  I think that in both cases they were also terran or jungle, however, without a sun, wouldn't they be tundra?

 

As for the others, I like your observations from the opening videos, but it is time for me to get ready for work.  TTYL.


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Exoclyps #58 Posted 12 January 2017 - 01:04 AM

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The biggest problem here is the severity of the homeworld. Starting on an arid planet can be quite the handicap. Like -35% food production on the homeworld with the starting population, and that is after my buff to arid worlds and going to a large world.


So giving someone an Arid World as a homeworld when they don't have a food/pop growth bonus can be devestation. Hence why Klackons that where on Arid and Sakkra on Swamp did all good.


I buffed Swamp worlds just slightly, so they do produce a little bit more food than before, but you lose out slightly on slots and pollution reduction compared to Terran.
So my difference is +food output -pollution.


Anyways, this does make them quite viable worlds, something that arid have been able to share my feeling for. Arid are good as 2ndary producing planets, sometimes better than Terran for the purpose, but as a starting homeworld where you wanna be able to grow population rather fast... I dunno.


Tundra/Desert would be even worse.
Tundra share the farming performance of Arid pretty much, but with less production. Desert got even less food, but with slightly more production than Arid. I think I still need to tweak a few numbers though to be happy. In an unmodded game wet is the clear winner in both performance and slots, in my mod I want to make it so that both has their purposes.


Wet: farming
Dry: producing


Total population should be the same I think. Unmodded got slightly more for wet atm.


Oh, and Nazin is "dim", but not without a sun. They have rain seasons and even slightly dry periods. Lots of evil life and big mushrooms. The rain is toxic btw xD


Feel free to use the ideas, but be careful on what effect it has on the race. The start of the game is really vital.



trbeier #59 Posted 14 January 2017 - 08:05 PM

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Have you been able to change a home system's star?  All I see in the yaml file is:

homeSystem: RACE_TYPE_ALKARI_HOME_SYSTEM

and I don't know what can go there.


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Exoclyps #60 Posted 15 January 2017 - 04:36 AM

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Haven't touched that variable. Only modified home planet which is in the trait area.




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