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MOO 3 source code


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mikeva1 #1 Posted 16 August 2015 - 07:08 PM

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Does WG have the source code for Master of Orion 3? I think you should release it sometime after the new Master of Orion is released. I would pay a small amount of money - $5? - for a copy along with a non-commercial license to allow me to modify it for my own enjoyment and (only with permission!) distribute it through this forum or any other place WG allows us to use.

 

Mechcommander 2 has a small (but loyal) fan base that has made improvements and other changes to the original game.

 

What does everyone think of this idea?



RayFowler #2 Posted 17 August 2015 - 01:06 AM

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I think $5 is a little too high for the MOO3 source code.
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OrionSol #3 Posted 17 August 2015 - 03:45 AM

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I wouldn't play it unless they paid me... and even then... 

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mikeva1 #4 Posted 17 August 2015 - 04:45 AM

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Well, they paid for it and since this might be the only money they make off of it..... Yeah its not worth $5 but I was feeling generous.

AriochIV #5 Posted 17 August 2015 - 05:24 AM

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I've seen a few cases in which old source code was released for free, but I don't think I've ever seen it sold.

 

There's also no guarantee that Wargaming has the MOO3 source code. When Gearbox did Homeworld Remastered, they had the source code to Homeworld 1 and 2, but not Cataclysm.



RayFowler #6 Posted 17 August 2015 - 11:44 AM

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View Postmikeva1, on 17 August 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

Well, they paid for it and since this might be the only money they make off of it..... Yeah its not worth $5 but I was feeling generous.

 

well honestly, there's no way they'd sell it for $5. The code and art assets for MOO3 were the result of many man-years of effort and they're not going to give it away. There's no benefit at all for them to do this. Offer them $50,000 and they might consider licensing it out to you with lots of legal paperwork surrounding what you can do with it.

 

That's even if they have it.


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Joshuashalo #7 Posted 17 August 2015 - 06:42 PM

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View Postmikeva1, on 16 August 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

Does WG have the source code for Master of Orion 3? I think you should release it sometime after the new Master of Orion is released. I would pay a small amount of money - $5? - for a copy along with a non-commercial license to allow me to modify it for my own enjoyment and (only with permission!) distribute it through this forum or any other place WG allows us to use.

 

Mechcommander 2 has a small (but loyal) fan base that has made improvements and other changes to the original game.

 

What does everyone think of this idea?

 

.

Edited by joshuashalo, 18 August 2015 - 01:06 AM.


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mikeva1 #8 Posted 17 August 2015 - 09:05 PM

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which announcement is that?

ElPozoleOlmeca #9 Posted 17 August 2015 - 09:25 PM

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View Postmikeva1, on 17 August 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

which announcement is that?

 

There is no announcement. I think he got confused with the op. 

Zeraan #10 Posted 18 August 2015 - 12:10 AM

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I wouldn't mind looking in MoO 3's source code and tinker with it.  At the very least, have it support different resolutions, and fix the DirectX Surface Unavailable error once and for all.  There could be a git repo, with few people hand-picked to handle the master branch and approve pull requests.  Maybe the community can transform MoO 3 into something wonderful that redeems the name "MoO 3"? You never know!

iHunterKiller #11 Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:15 AM

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They said they dont own the rights to any of the previous games code, only the IP which is Intelectual Property. Anything tied to that before hand isnt automatically owned by WG.

 

So unfortunately the MoO3 code became lost after atari pooped in a bucket.


You and your friends may have preferred certain features from MoO1 or MoO2 .. or perhaps even MoO3 but that does not mean everyone prefers it that way.

Perhaps you could think of some amazing alternative that could enhance the game in new areas, making it more enjoyable for everyone!

Please be creative and open minded when posting, we all want this to be the best game it can be.


Felix_the_Fox #12 Posted 18 August 2015 - 01:23 PM

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View PostiHunterKiller, on 18 August 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

They said they dont own the rights to any of the previous games code, only the IP which is Intelectual Property. Anything tied to that before hand isnt automatically owned by WG.

 

So unfortunately the MoO3 code became lost after atari pooped in a bucket.

 

Sad AND true.

mikeva1 #13 Posted 19 August 2015 - 05:53 PM

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It's sad to think that the source code fo9r MOO 3 may be lost forever.... well, maybe not. It would be fun to tinker with and see if some further development might make it into a half way decent game. It DID have great graphics but that was about all it had going for it.

Varadhon #14 Posted 19 August 2015 - 06:25 PM

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View PostiHunterKiller, on 18 August 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

They said they dont own the rights to any of the previous games code, only the IP which is Intelectual Property. Anything tied to that before hand isnt automatically owned by WG.

 

So unfortunately the MoO3 code became lost after atari pooped in a bucket.

 

This is confusing.  Most of my law school training focused on IP.  Source code is protected at the least under copyright in every legal regime that matters.  Copyright is a species of IP.  As such, it is certainly part of MoO's IP as a whole.  

 

It's possible (common) to sell off rights to different parts of an IP portfolio, though it would be essentially impossible to separate certain of them (e.g. the trademark in the Master of Orion name and any of its characters that serve as marks would be impossible to separate from the copyright that also subsists in the title, any characters, races, names, images, etc.).   Given that the Wargaming's rights in MoO were acquired in Atari's bankruptcy sale, it would be bizarre if the source code hadn't been sold off as well.  If Atari somehow didn't HAVE the source code to begin with or somehow lost it, that's another matter, but even that strikes me as exceedingly strange.  

 

Do you have a source for the assertion that the MoO3 source code is lost or that it wasn't picked up in the Atari sale?



Mikko_M #15 Posted 19 August 2015 - 06:31 PM

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View PostVaradhon, on 19 August 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

 

This is confusing.  Most of my law school training focused on IP.  Source code is protected at the least under copyright in every legal regime that matters.  Copyright is a species of IP.  As such, it is certainly part of MoO's IP as a whole.

 

It's possible (common) to sell off rights to different parts of an IP portfolio, though it would be essentially impossible to separate certain of them (e.g. the trademark in the Master of Orion name and any of its characters that serve as marks would be impossible to separate from the copyright that also subsists in the title, any characters, races, names, images, etc.).   Given that the Wargaming's rights in MoO were acquired in Atari's bankruptcy sale, it would be bizarre if the source code hadn't been sold off as well.  If Atari somehow didn't HAVE the source code to begin with or somehow lost it, that's another matter, but even that strikes me as exceedingly strange.

 

Do you have a source for the assertion that the MoO3 source code is lost or that it wasn't picked up in the Atari sale?

 

 

Do you know then if game source code is usually protected forever, if the owner doesn`t release it as freeware, or is it like, as I understand it is with medical patents, that they expire after some years?


Edited by Mikko_M, 19 August 2015 - 06:32 PM.

Moreover, I advise that the tactical combat must be made more player controllable and informative for this to become a proper MOO game.

 

​The long lost formula for space 4X game success = Good tactical combat + good empire management > than just good tactical combat or good empire management alone.


Varadhon #16 Posted 19 August 2015 - 06:42 PM

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View PostMikko_M, on 19 August 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

 

Do you know then if game source code is usually protected forever, if the owner doesn`t release it as freeware, or is it like, as I understand it is with medical patents, that they expire after some years?

 

Software is typically produced as a "work made for hire," which means that the copyright would persist until 95 years after its publication or 120 years--whichever is shorter.  In MoO3's case, that would mean that the copyright wouldn't expire until about 2098.

 

Under the U.S. Constitution, the U.S. government doesn't have the right to extend copyright "forever."  That said, 95 years IS forever for something as transitory as software.

 


Edited by Varadhon, 19 August 2015 - 06:42 PM.


iHunterKiller #17 Posted 19 August 2015 - 08:56 PM

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The code being lost was me dramatizing the statement more than anything else as the fact remains that WG stated they dont own the rights to the source code of the previous games. The IP in so much as the story and thematic design has been sold to different parties multiple times now, but im not sure the material created before that point came along with it as that is something physical, and the way i think of it, IP isn't something physical but meta-physical.

Though im not savvy on legal matters, so please forgive my ignorance lol.

 

Damn, wish i could find the post about not owning the source code to the previous games now, cant seem to dig it up. Definitely read it at some point though.

Can anyone else find it?

 

Since you have studied the field Varadhon, whats happening with the previous games. They are all still purchasable from various digital retailers. Who is getting that money?

 

 

 

 


You and your friends may have preferred certain features from MoO1 or MoO2 .. or perhaps even MoO3 but that does not mean everyone prefers it that way.

Perhaps you could think of some amazing alternative that could enhance the game in new areas, making it more enjoyable for everyone!

Please be creative and open minded when posting, we all want this to be the best game it can be.


Varadhon #18 Posted 19 August 2015 - 09:51 PM

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It's hard to say without actually reviewing the contracts that governed the transfers.  The most likely scenario is that Wargaming became the substitute recipient of any licensing fees for the continuing sale of MoO1/2/3.  

It also depends on how vigorously WG polices its marks and/or copyrights.  That's mostly a business decision on their end that balances the costs of litigation and running afoul of things like the naked licensing doctrine.

The fact that the source code is usually guarded like a trade secret is a feature of the odd fit that copyright is for software.  In the case of software, the copyright is essentially limited to almost exact copying.  Because software does something, it's useful and others would want to reuse the method used in one piece of software to solve the same or similar problem in another.  Normally we would protect useful systems under patent law, but patents, especially system patents, are very expensive and time consuming to prosecute.  By the time such a patent would likely issue (if at all), the software would be obsolete in most cases.

  The end result is that source code has to be protected through the law of trade secrets and unfair competition as well as through the prolific use of non disclosure agreements.  By necessity, few copies of the source code would ever exist, so there's a greater risk of their loss.

The fact that software so quickly obsolesces might explain why nobody endeavored to keep it as well.

SIEGE109 #19 Posted 21 August 2015 - 03:58 AM

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I recall hearing somewhere that it's owned by Galaxy of Games, they don't just sell it.

Tom_Holsinger #20 Posted 16 October 2015 - 10:57 PM

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I find it unlikely that the MOO3 source code was lost.  The annotations to the MOO3 source code appeared on the CD for the Mac version of the MOO3.   That was how our fan programmer, Bhruic, debugged the MOO3 code and made the modifications we requested.  A Mac CD version of MOO3 can probably be found somewhere.

 

I also expect that Quicksilver Software kept the source code.  I was there when Atari's representative delivered the MOO2 source code to Quicksilver.






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