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MoO 1 + 2 were awesome... but why does no one remember MoO 3?


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MrWizard_2015 #1 Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:24 AM

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Its like you all dont want MoO 3 to exist? What happened with it?

OrionSol #2 Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:46 AM

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RayFowler #3 Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:51 AM

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There was a tremendous amount of hype about MOO3 and, after some delays, it was released unfinished and buggy. It was a major disappointment.

 

It  was so bad that many fans considered the "Master of Orion" brand permanently tarnished. And maybe it was. That was 15 years ago and we are only now finally getting a new Master of Orion.


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AriochIV #4 Posted 01 September 2015 - 03:58 AM

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View PostMrWizard_2015, on 31 August 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

Its like you all dont want MoO 3 to exist? What happened with it?

 

It was terrible. It was the worst 4X game I ever played.

Mytox #5 Posted 01 September 2015 - 07:35 AM

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MoO 3 was a Disaster !!! i bougth it i tried to play it for weeks but .... i simply couldnt like it  !! buggy, chaotic well i dont wanna remember those days !!! it was and is a terrible game it should be removed from moO series !!

MOO2MOD #6 Posted 01 September 2015 - 07:38 AM

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can still feel the disappoinment, disbelief and rage about that game today!

 

moderator, please delete this thread!

quickly now....  ;)

 


Edited by MOO2MOD, 01 September 2015 - 08:49 AM.


Omega_Weapon #7 Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:01 AM

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I was so happy when I bought my copy of MOO 3 on the first day. Finally a new MOO to replace my old copy of MOO 2 that I was still running. I read the manual including that massive amount of "lore". Started playing the game and was way beyond disappointed. Shocked and disgusted are better descriptions. I held my nose and tried to play it a bit further on the second day, because maybe it would get better, but no. Bought the game and played it for a total of two days. Worst game purchase ever and I would applaud fraud convictions for the devs that were behind MOO 3.

VMetalic #8 Posted 01 September 2015 - 09:38 AM

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View PostMrWizard_2015, on 01 September 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

Its like you all dont want MoO 3 to exist? What happened with it?

 

Well, best way to find out is to buy it and see for yourself. It will be a big waste of money :)

 

Its probably one of the worst games of all times.



Anguille_1 #9 Posted 01 September 2015 - 10:50 AM

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Lots of hype and bad release (though it was playable). Then it took about 6 months before the major patch came out. Another big bummer...fixed resolution!

 

 

However, MOO3 is (with fan patches) an EXCELLENT game and one of the best 4X out there. It's not pretty and is enjoyed mostly by hardcore wargamers like me. The Learning curve is very very steep. The new master of orion will continue where MOO2 stopped.


Edited by Anguille_1, 01 September 2015 - 10:52 AM.

Playing MOO since 1993

 

Playing MOO Conquer the Stars on GOG Galaxy

 

4x space game CV: Master of Orion, Master of Orion II, Master of Orion III, Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain, Reach for the Stars, Imperium Galactica, Imperium Galactica II, Armada 2526, Distant Worlds, Star Ruler I and II, Endless Space, Horizon, Stardrive, Stradrive II, Sword of the Stars, Sword of the Stars II, Galactic Civilization I - III, LotBS, Lost Empires: Immortals, Space Empires IV and V, Starships Unlimited, Star Wars: Empire at War, Star Wars: Rebellio, Birth of the Federation and Stellaris.


RayFowler #10 Posted 02 September 2015 - 01:05 PM

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View PostAnguille_1, on 01 September 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

 

However, MOO3 is (with fan patches) an EXCELLENT game and one of the best 4X out there.

 

You belong to a very small minority with that opinion. We all get that the fan patches made the game playable, but it's a far stretch from being an "excellent" game or "one of the best".

 

I'm not even sure that an unofficial fan mod should be part of the consideration.


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Anguille_1 #11 Posted 02 September 2015 - 03:32 PM

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View PostRayFowler, on 02 September 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

You belong to a very small minority with that opinion. We all get that the fan patches made the game playable, but it's a far stretch from being an "excellent" game or "one of the best".

 

I'm not even sure that an unofficial fan mod should be part of the consideration.

1) Considering the big number of MOO1 and MOO2 players, yes, i am part of a minority. Still, being part of the MOO3 forums for a long time, there were a lot people playing and enjoying the game (still today). I really do believe it is an excellent game and different wargamers i know (from other forums) share my opinion. It's way to hardcore for a large audience and it would have been even harder if the originial design had been implemented (with the Imperial Focus Points and so forth).

I fully agree that they completely missed their goal and MOO3 is not the game i was hoping for.

2) Maybe. I am not taking about a mod but a fan patch. The 1.2.5 version (the last official patch) has still some problematic bugs which is why this "fan patch" should be included in the "collector's edition".


Edited by Anguille_1, 02 September 2015 - 03:34 PM.

Playing MOO since 1993

 

Playing MOO Conquer the Stars on GOG Galaxy

 

4x space game CV: Master of Orion, Master of Orion II, Master of Orion III, Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain, Reach for the Stars, Imperium Galactica, Imperium Galactica II, Armada 2526, Distant Worlds, Star Ruler I and II, Endless Space, Horizon, Stardrive, Stradrive II, Sword of the Stars, Sword of the Stars II, Galactic Civilization I - III, LotBS, Lost Empires: Immortals, Space Empires IV and V, Starships Unlimited, Star Wars: Empire at War, Star Wars: Rebellio, Birth of the Federation and Stellaris.


MOO2MOD #12 Posted 02 September 2015 - 05:57 PM

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I have seen some moo3 mods on youtube with dramatically improved interfaces that replace that absolutely disturbing 'bonking' noise from changing windows or sub-menu's to the more gentle sounds of moo2.

Anguille_1, what are your favorite mods for moo3?

I don't even have a clue how many mods are out there and what they do.



JamieK81 #13 Posted 05 September 2015 - 11:38 PM

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MoO3 was rubbish compared to MoO2....enough said.

Vahouth #14 Posted 06 October 2015 - 04:26 PM

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Only think I liked in MoO3 was the diplomacy screen. I really liked those Klackons.

Everything else was crap.



Tom_Holsinger #15 Posted 16 October 2015 - 11:51 PM

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View PostRayFowler, on 02 September 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

You belong to a very small minority with that opinion. We all get that the fan patches made the game playable, but it's a far stretch from being an "excellent" game or "one of the best".

 

I'm not even sure that an unofficial fan mod should be part of the consideration.

 

Ray, Bhruic's fan patches should be part of the discussion because MOO3 is unplayable without them.  A patch to me is more than a bug fix - it is a mod which makes a game playable as the developers intended.  Mods differ from patches in that the former alter game play from he developers' intent.

 

Anguille, you need to caveat that.  MOO3 with all of Bhruic's patches and some his of mods is IMO the "best" turn-based Space 4x game even today in some ways, and definitely is an excellent military strategy game once you get past the dreadful slow boring planetary/empire development.  BUT it is necessary to put up with its crappy interface, inability to save games in the middle of a turn, etc, AND really dramatically mod the game to do so.  That requires the interest to put up with all the crap plus years and years of experience both playing space 4x games and designing them, to know which mods to use and how to implement those.

 

IMO MOO2's planetary/empire development coupled with MOO3's spacelane movement, ship/fleet/combat systems, and MOO3's diplomacy, would be great.  Probably only really experienced naval gamers would understand how Alan's unintentional, and serendipitous, ship/fleet reserve and Mobilization Center game subsystems are to its success as a militarry space strategy game.  I'll explain the latter in another thread here in a week or two.



JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #16 Posted 17 October 2015 - 08:21 AM

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View PostTom_Holsinger, on 16 October 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

 

IMO MOO2's planetary/empire development coupled with MOO3's spacelane movement, ship/fleet/combat systems, and MOO3's diplomacy, would be great.  Probably only really experienced naval gamers would understand how Alan's unintentional, and serendipitous, ship/fleet reserve and Mobilization Center game subsystems are to its success as a militarry space strategy game.  I'll explain the latter in another thread here in a week or two.

 

Hear hear... +1 to Tom_Holsinger.


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Varadhon #17 Posted 17 October 2015 - 09:17 AM

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View PostTom_Holsinger, on 16 October 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

IMO MOO2's planetary/empire development coupled with MOO3's spacelane movement, ship/fleet/combat systems, and MOO3's diplomacy, would be great.  Probably only really experienced naval gamers would understand how Alan's unintentional, and serendipitous, ship/fleet reserve and Mobilization Center game subsystems are to its success as a militarry space strategy game.  I'll explain the latter in another thread here in a week or two.

 

The MoO2 planetary management system is the city management system stripped from Master of Magic (itself largely borrowed from Civilization) and re-skinned with a space theme. It's much too clumsy for the number of colonizable bodies that MoO3 always aimed to have. A slightly more detailed version of MoO1's colony management system that relied more on abstraction with some added elements and art assets to enhance immersion would be far preferable. 

 

The use of the city management system in MoO2 also always made me feel like I was governing only one settlement on a planet rather than a whole world. I'm not honestly convinced that Civilization's city management system is actually the best model even for Civ, but it's become the go-to standard for terrestrial 4X games.

 

I really admired what MoO3 tried to accomplish. Some of the design elements that ultimately didn't make it into the game (the ethos system, for example) had great potential too. I just wish the game weren't so ugly and that it provided the player with much better feedback. When it was released, the game was totally opaque. Figuring out what the consequences of your choices were was impossible. Combat was the perfect example: it was nearly impossible to figure out why a fleet was effective or why it wasn't. 



JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #18 Posted 17 October 2015 - 10:32 AM

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View PostVaradhon, on 17 October 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

 

I really admired what MoO3 tried to accomplish.

 

Hear hear... +1 to Varadhon.


"Nice pictures, nice UI, balance and a good AI" © "This is no mine, it's a tomb!"

Poll from Zorg : Combat is the Core for MOO Universe 4x Strategy

Poll from Zorg : No LOOT in MOO/CtS


RayFowler #19 Posted 17 October 2015 - 01:19 PM

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View PostTom_Holsinger, on 16 October 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

 

Anguille, you need to caveat that.  MOO3 with all of Bhruic's patches and some his of mods is IMO the "best" turn-based Space 4x game even today in some ways, and definitely is an excellent military strategy game once you get past the dreadful slow boring planetary/empire development.  BUT it is necessary to put up with its crappy interface, inability to save games in the middle of a turn, etc, AND really dramatically mod the game to do so.  That requires the interest to put up with all the crap plus years and years of experience both playing space 4x games and designing them, to know which mods to use and how to implement those.

 

Tom,  I certainly appreciate your passion for MOO3! However, I think my point stands that players who think MOO3 is a great game are in a very small minority. Perhaps it is just because the game was so unplayable (your words) when it came out, followed by Atari's quick dumping of the game, that no one reconsiders it.

 

Part of me also wonders if the Ulysses effect is not involved, since it's human nature to find ways love something after putting endless hours into it. For example, in the same paragraph you mention how great MOO3 is, you also mention "the dreadful slow boring planetary/empire development" and "crappy interface" along with the need to have "years and years of experience both playing space 4x games and designing them" in order to find the MOO3 diamond in the rough.

 

I am honestly thrilled that MOO3 has a loyal following and that you love it, but hopefully you can see that you don't make a convincing case for the average MOO1/2 fan who felt royally burned by Atari after the MOO3 release.

 

 


Master of Orion fan since 1993

JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #20 Posted 17 October 2015 - 02:16 PM

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MOO3 Post Mortem :

 

1. Result                      : Yes;

2. Quality                     : Poor;

3. Fitness for purpose : Very poor;

 

However there are a lot of fresh ideas in MOO3.


Edited by JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, 17 October 2015 - 02:19 PM.

"Nice pictures, nice UI, balance and a good AI" © "This is no mine, it's a tomb!"

Poll from Zorg : Combat is the Core for MOO Universe 4x Strategy

Poll from Zorg : No LOOT in MOO/CtS





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