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Vahouth #501 Posted 13 February 2016 - 09:48 AM

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Warp points sound better and almost give the impression that it's not something found in nature but rather a nav point that is the result of calculations, the most efficient route. 


Arent11 #502 Posted 13 February 2016 - 11:07 AM

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View PostGeneralDirection, on 13 February 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

After attempting to disprove the theories behind Black Holes by sending a "research crew" through one, we have decided that the classification is not as accurate as we had hoped. Henceforth Black Holes are now dubbed Wormholes, and the artists formerly known as Wormholes are now going by the designation "Warp Point."

 

View PostVahouth, on 13 February 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Warp points sound better and almost give the impression that it's not something found in nature but rather a nav point that is the result of calculations, the most efficient route. 

 

So "starlanes" are now "warppoints"? That would actually work for me.

 

I want to make a suggestion how you could make your "lore" behind "warppoints"/"starlanes" more watertight or consistent. You could, in fact, argue something like this: Warpspace/Hyperspace is dangerous and to navigate it, you simply need stellar masses for orientation. If you stray from them, you can not, anymore, determine how far, or how long, you travel. You could be caught in warpspace, end up in dangerous places etc. (You could also argue that you can only *initiate* or *end* warp travel near stellar masses, similar to "tunneling" in quantum mechanics.) And great advances in physics technologies allow you to build "jumpgates" or "stargates" to travel directly between systems that have these.

 

In this way, you would simply keep your "warppoints"/"starlanes", and your jumpgate/stargate techs, but the "lore" behind all these would be much more consistent.


Edited by Arent11, 13 February 2016 - 11:09 AM.


Summon3r #503 Posted 13 February 2016 - 09:50 PM

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warp points sound great, at least you dont know the exact location an enemy will come out of and vice versa if that is how they will work.... im thinking along the lines of battletech here with nadir and zenith jump points and carefully calculated pirate jump points/warp points

StormhawkAPS #504 Posted 13 February 2016 - 10:02 PM

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View PostArent11, on 13 February 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

 

 

So "starlanes" are now "warppoints"? That would actually work for me.

 

I want to make a suggestion how you could make your "lore" behind "warppoints"/"starlanes" more watertight or consistent. You could, in fact, argue something like this: Warpspace/Hyperspace is dangerous and to navigate it, you simply need stellar masses for orientation. If you stray from them, you can not, anymore, determine how far, or how long, you travel. You could be caught in warpspace, end up in dangerous places etc. (You could also argue that you can only *initiate* or *end* warp travel near stellar masses, similar to "tunneling" in quantum mechanics.) And great advances in physics technologies allow you to build "jumpgates" or "stargates" to travel directly between systems that have these.

 

In this way, you would simply keep your "warppoints"/"starlanes", and your jumpgate/stargate techs, but the "lore" behind all these would be much more consistent.

 

Pretty sure they were never officially called 'starlanes', at least publically. They just get called that by the fan community because it's a generic catch-all term for the concept in all games. Like Sins of a Solar Empire has 'starlane' mechanics for their phase lanes and phase jump drives. I suppose the simplest explanation is that it is the name of the video game trope associated with the concept.

 

Also, I really do like the idea of them being essentially locations of ideal natural conditions for FTL drive usage. Reminds me of the Lagrange points used for FTL in the Independence War series. Or the jump nodes of Wing Commander. Etc, etc, etc...


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Omega_Weapon #505 Posted 14 February 2016 - 04:28 AM

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View PostGeneralDirection, on 12 February 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

After attempting to disprove the theories behind Black Holes by sending a "research crew" through one, we have decided that the classification is not as accurate as we had hoped. Henceforth Black Holes are now dubbed Wormholes, and the artists formerly known as Wormholes are now going by the designation "Warp Point."

 

Don't want to get too excited yet but this kind of sounds like progress in the right direction.
 


Michael_Faber #506 Posted 14 February 2016 - 12:19 PM

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I do not care if they call starlanes warp points or whatnot for me it is a gamebreaker. Imagine if orion is situated deep in enemy territory maybe even behind a network of two or more enemys. There is no chance in hell that you get there first. Same if eg the klackons are behind a wall of enemys and the player has no chance to stop them from spreading all over the galaxy. Starlanes or warp points mess up the whole game. Do not even get me started on real time combat...

Vahouth #507 Posted 14 February 2016 - 12:26 PM

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If I were to guess, Orion will be in or close to the center of the galaxy and behind red lanes only. Also the Guardian will be a serious pain in the @ss.


Edited by Vahouth, 15 February 2016 - 06:10 PM.


NinjaLA #508 Posted 15 February 2016 - 10:06 AM

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there better be a sakkra leader named jack after an image like that.. lemmetellya.  and a mrrshan leader named rose :P

JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #509 Posted 15 February 2016 - 10:22 AM

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View PostGeneralDirection, on 13 February 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

After attempting to disprove the theories behind Black Holes by sending a "research crew" through one, we have decided that the classification is not as accurate as we had hoped. Henceforth Black Holes are now dubbed Wormholes, and the artists formerly known as Wormholes are now going by the designation "Warp Point."

 

View PostVahouth, on 13 February 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Warp points sound better and almost give the impression that it's not something found in nature but rather a nav point that is the result of calculations, the most efficient route. 

 

Yes ! It's Great !!! No more Starlanes, but points which can be used by navigators to calculate and perform a warp jump of some sort !!! A new atmosphere with an existing game mechanics.

 

New screenshots here

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, 15 February 2016 - 10:41 AM.

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M002mod #510 Posted 15 February 2016 - 12:14 PM

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View PostJeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, on 15 February 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

View PostVahouth, on 13 February 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Warp points sound better and almost give the impression that it's not something found in nature but rather a nav point that is the result of calculations, the most efficient route. 

 

Yes ! It's Great !!! No more Starlanes, but points which can be used by navigators to calculate and perform a warp jump of some sort !!! A new atmosphere with an existing game mechanics.

 

ehr, guys, this is only a name change here. a new label for the same mechanic

 

"almost give the impression" ?? 

com'on Vahouth, i know you can do better :)

Starlanes are not about the result of calculations or the most efficient route at all, no matter how much you'd like to apply such a story to this mechanic.

Starlanes or Warp Points are about limited travel options and forced routes, until the devs decide otherwise. 



Lucian667 #511 Posted 15 February 2016 - 12:31 PM

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View PostM002mod, on 15 February 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

Starlanes are not about the result of calculations or the most efficient route at all, no matter how much you'd like to apply such a story to this mechanic.

Starlanes or Warp Points are about limited travel options and forced routes, until the devs decide otherwise. 

 

Very true, but the fact that people are willing to perform such complex mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they aren't really starlanes is a good indication of how universally unpopular and despised they actually are, even among players who are normally not particularly vocal in opposition.

Vahouth #512 Posted 15 February 2016 - 12:39 PM

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View PostM002mod, on 15 February 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

ehr, guys, this is only a name change here. a new label for the same mechanic

 

"almost give the impression" ?? 

com'on Vahouth, i know you can do better :)

Starlanes are not about the result of calculations or the most efficient route at all, no matter how much you'd like to apply such a story to this mechanic.

Starlanes or Warp Points are about limited travel options and forced routes, until the devs decide otherwise. 

 

They are in Star Wars. ;)


M002mod #513 Posted 15 February 2016 - 12:52 PM

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View PostVahouth, on 15 February 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

 

They are in Star Wars. ;)

 

LOL

Vahouth #514 Posted 15 February 2016 - 12:57 PM

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:D

I know they are still starlanes, but for some people it is easier to see a justification for them if they are considered as the result of necessity eg. safest routes, and not naturally occuring wormholes that just happened to appear everywhere.



M002mod #515 Posted 15 February 2016 - 01:04 PM

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Ok, but if its about the warp point lore, then i'd like to think of them as a system (or relic) of the Ancient Great Civilizations, from a time before the great wars between the Orions & Antarans.

 

 



Vahouth #516 Posted 15 February 2016 - 01:16 PM

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That was actually one of my suggestions to the devs. I was hoping that the lane network could be something to be discovered or researched later on, and not something that everyone can use from the start of the game.

 

Now that I think about it, there is still a chance for that to work.

We all know that there are anomalies to be discovered. The game can start pre-warp, dub the warp points anomalies and allow them to be explored. This way there will also be a justification using the lore.


Edited by Vahouth, 15 February 2016 - 01:24 PM.


Lucian667 #517 Posted 15 February 2016 - 01:23 PM

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View PostVahouth, on 15 February 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

That was actually one of my suggestions to the devs. I was hoping that the lane network could be something to be discovered or researched later on, and not something that everyone can use from the start of the game.

 

I could almost swallow that. I mean its massively meta-gamey and contrived but at least it sort of makes sense - as opposed to how it currently stands.

Vahouth #518 Posted 15 February 2016 - 01:33 PM

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View PostLucian667, on 15 February 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

 

I could almost swallow that. I mean its massively meta-gamey and contrived but at least it sort of makes sense - as opposed to how it currently stands.

 

So if for example you get to research FTL field and choose between free movement and starlanes as available techs, that's something meta-gamey and/or contrived?


Edited by Vahouth, 15 February 2016 - 01:34 PM.


Lucian667 #519 Posted 15 February 2016 - 01:43 PM

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View PostVahouth, on 15 February 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

So if for example you get to research FTL field and choose between free movement and starlanes as available techs, that's something meta-gamey and/or contrived?

 

When I say "contrived" I mean that the ancient relic story - if it is used - will serve one purpose and one purpose ONLY. To explain why we have forced movement restrictions and allow the devs to include their land-based strategy elements (space roads and space mountains) in the game, thus the term "meta-gamey". But at least it will make some sort of sense whereas at the moment all these short-range wormholes everywhere make absolutely no sense at all.

 

If we had a choice between free movement and starlanes - which we almost certainly wont - I'd be quite happy. I'd just completely ignore the starlanes.



StormhawkAPS #520 Posted 15 February 2016 - 02:16 PM

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I personally want the 'Warp Point' name change to precede a shift to the idea that the different warp points in a given system are just the locations where ships can exit and enter that system from that direction, and give us back our fuel range and free movement beyond those points. Like they're just the 'North', 'South', 'East', 'West' entry points for the star system so you can at least prepare to defend your solar systems from those locations if you know potential enemy worlds are in those directions. Everything else about MOO classic movement between stars would remain the same, but the in-system mechanics would rely on these points as locations of ideal natural FTL use conditions to jump to any system in that direction.

 

It might be wishful thinking, but I really like the idea, all the same. It doesn't require a contrived 'relic of the ancient ones' backstory and brings us back to the series' roots, as well as would make the game stand out as unique with its own appeal in the current 4X market.


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