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MoO 2 espionage

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del1015496790 #1 Posted 26 September 2015 - 09:47 AM

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Does anybody know how espionage works in Master of Orion II?

 

The most detailed info I have found is this old forum post. Basically it says assassin leader go first and then one offensive spy (if any) rolls against one defensive spy (if any), one who succeeds makes a second roll for outcome. Too bad the person examining the assembly didn't put more effort to elaborate how the rolls work...

 

These are my assumptions:

  • Multiple spies in the same "box" don't affect the odds, they are merely hit points, how many turns a "box" can fail both rolles.
  • First roll is similar to ground combat and space combat hit chance described in MoO 2 weapon calculations guide. Ignore "%" symbol, espionage points are same kind of points like beam attack and beam defense, not direct percentages but if the difference is small they do work as % bonus. Difference between attacker and defender points matters, not absolute values. 45 vs 30 is the same as 15 vs 0. Calculate X = (attacker - defender)/16 and attacker's success chance percentage is 100/(1+2^-X). Roll a random number between 0 an 1 (or 0% and 100%) and compare it to attacker's chances, it the roll is smaller, attacker wins, otherwise defender wins. I actually tested ground combat and it works as described here so if they used the same system in two different places, I assume they used it in the espionage too.
  • Winner of the first roll makes a second roll. Defender rolls to kill an enemy spy, if the roll is failed the enemy lives but does nothing this turn. If attacker makes second roll, outcome is determined by how well he/she rolled, better roll -> better outcome (no action, steal tech, steal tech + kill defender, steal tech + kill defender + frame other player). I have no idea and no hunch on what influences the second roll. Is it dependent on espionage points?

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JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #2 Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:03 AM

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This IS a very interesting Topic. There was a similar discussion at .ru forum, as a few cases were described. It was mentioned that a difference of 5% made a great (almost not fair) change to sabotage in multiplayer (pretending that the number of spies was the same at both sides).

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MOO2MOD #3 Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:59 AM

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I have described one more piece of this puzzle here:

http://moo2mod.blogspot.nl/2015/09/spying-bonuses.html



OrionSol #4 Posted 26 September 2015 - 02:40 PM

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I'd like spies to be units, that we have to ship to planets to conduct work. 

 

MoO2 spying was... lame 


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MOO2MOD #5 Posted 26 September 2015 - 06:07 PM

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it is an elegant little formula:

if #spies <= 5, then #spies + #spies

if #spies 5 <= 10, then #spies + 5

if #spies >10, then  (#spies - 10 - 1) / 2 + 15



MOO2MOD #6 Posted 27 September 2015 - 11:00 AM

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still need to find some time to study that bit of code more closely.

the numbers 60,80,90 and 70,90 are definitely in the code.

have been playing around with them a bit and it gave me some doubt about the function of the '60' value as changing it did not create any observable effect.

lowering the '80' value created very clear improvement in spy chances for succes.

 

but perhaps the mechanic you quoted comes into play for '60' in which case I should test in a hotseat rather than against an a.i.:

Block Quote

Winner of the first roll makes a second roll. Defender rolls to kill an enemy spy, if the roll is failed the enemy lives but does nothing this turn. If attacker makes second roll, outcome is determined by how well he/she rolled, better roll -> better outcome (no action, steal tech, steal tech + kill defender, steal tech + kill defender + frame other player). I have no idea and no hunch on what influences the second roll. Is it dependent on espionage points?

 

the random roll 0-100 appears a couple of times in the code, cannot confirm if it works exactly as described above.

needs some testing.



curlybenno #7 Posted 14 November 2015 - 10:45 PM

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So...putting spies in your half does help prevent the computers from stealing techs! I've always wondered if it had any effect at all. Think I'll always try to have 5 in defensive position, sounds like that the most effecent.

curlybenno #8 Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:32 AM

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Speaking of spying, what is the difference between "hide" and keeping the spies at the bottom of the "Race" screen?

voidstalker_woe #9 Posted 20 December 2015 - 03:30 PM

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I am currently playing a game of moo2, and I discovered on one of the previous run throughs that 5 spies seemed to give me the best returns in regards to # of techs stolen, so I have just been using 5 spies on everyone and a bit more than that kept at home.  I do, however, always take the maximum spying bonus.  :)
Further more, I believe that we must start building a better MoO5 now, for only by doing so can we get tomorrow's game, today!

M002mod #10 Posted 21 December 2015 - 08:52 PM

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i wish for moo2 that you would also need a spy to get the enemy tech information, instead that you get all that info for free as soon as you make contact with a new race.

Anguille_1 #11 Posted 29 December 2015 - 10:03 AM

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I think that the spying system in the first MOO was the best....it still is the best imhe because it gives you the control over the targets (planets for instance).

Playing MOO since 1993

 

Playing MOO Conquer the Stars on GOG Galaxy

 

4x space game CV: Master of Orion, Master of Orion II, Master of Orion III, Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain, Reach for the Stars, Imperium Galactica, Imperium Galactica II, Armada 2526, Distant Worlds, Star Ruler I and II, Endless Space, Horizon, Stardrive, Stradrive II, Sword of the Stars, Sword of the Stars II, Galactic Civilization I - III, LotBS, Lost Empires: Immortals, Space Empires IV and V, Starships Unlimited, Star Wars: Empire at War, Star Wars: Rebellio, Birth of the Federation and Stellaris.






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