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Community Feedback Thread | The Galaxy Map


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Provinfistoris #81 Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:38 PM

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View PostAndruski, on 09 March 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I have already posted about zoom levels and also being able to see a system when zoomed all the way out to the galaxy level (possibly via picture-in-picture like Moo2). Naturally there is a ton about star lanes in here, and though I'd prefer to not have them, if we are to be stuck with them, why on earth do we have infinite range? Additionally, I've seen a lot about terraforming and Gaia transformation, and want to throw in that I agree the techs for them comes too early (though they could perhaps subdivide terraforming to upgrading lower tier biomes at early techs and then finally reaching terra/gaia towards the end). I also liked the Moo1 concept of needing tech to colonize the more hazardous biomes. But I feel that this touches on a more core design element than just tech placement:

 

Food isn't interesting.

 

Now I know a LOT of people didn't like having to manage freighter fleets in Moo2, and its implementation was clunky (maybe they should've let you build more than 5 units at a time) but at least it made that ultra-food-producing-with-natives-gaia-planet still amazing long after it had reached its pop cap. That was because that planet would become the bread-basket for the rest of the empire. It would specialize in food production so others could specialize in science and industry. Your empire became interconnected. Your radioactive ultra rich planet needed food, and the ultra poor ocean provided it (and depending on the food situation, you might have actually needed that ultra poor ocean, fought wars over it even).  Even when everyone was well fed, food surplus still served a purpose as it gave bonus $$. Right now food = growth. Some grow faster than others, but when they max out, food = pointless. 

 

 

I gotta say I agree with this completely. Food is boring, bring back MoO 2 growth!

 

Also zoom is too sensitive, and dislike starlanes. I like OrionSol's suggestion. A line of text to tell me what I finished on a planet would help greatly. Also a list when going into managing structures, instead of moving around the planet to find that one structure I want to scrap. 



Vahouth #82 Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:50 PM

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I just had my first game in a large map and I couldn't get myself finish it. OMG what a drag! 

Even with interphased drive and jump gates I needed 6 turn to cross 1/3 of the galaxy! WTF

If the game is so slow on a large map, I cannot even begin to imagine what could happen in a Huge map. LOL

Spoiler

Unfortunately that was not the only problem. The AI could not keep up with me (1 system for the Psilons, 3 each for the Alkari and the Bulrathi and 6 for the Mrrshan), only the late Humans had cruisers, and I could not end it by winning diplomatically because the game thought there is also an Unknown AI and the council could not be triggered. 

So, yeah...I think I'll stick to small and medium maps until the ship speed gets a lot faster. And I mean A LOT!


Edited by Vahouth, 09 March 2016 - 07:51 PM.


Provinfistoris #83 Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:54 PM

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Gotta say, I just thought about it as reading another thread. I agree that right now planet specials are far too weak. I also think that structures in general are too weak though. What happened to 200+ prod planets that could churn out your biggest ships at the drop of a hat? Since specials are so prevalent they aren't worth fighting over at all. 

Harper73 #84 Posted 09 March 2016 - 08:02 PM

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View PostProvinfistoris, on 09 March 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

Gotta say, I just thought about it as reading another thread. I agree that right now planet specials are far too weak. I also think that structures in general are too weak though. What happened to 200+ prod planets that could churn out your biggest ships at the drop of a hat? Since specials are so prevalent they aren't worth fighting over at all. 

 

​Agree. I don't ever feel like I have to worry about food. And Science goes SO fast I don't even have to add people to science to fly through the tech.

 

What also really crazy is I got Titans tech and designed my first titan and quied it up. By the time I had it build I think I was on design E before it was built.



Vahouth #85 Posted 09 March 2016 - 08:09 PM

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Everything seems to move faster except ships...


Stilchion #86 Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:12 PM

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  I for one would like to see some of the cut scenes expanded when encountering space monsters on the map and also to do the same when colonizing a new planet. The game at present is very playable even though many things have yet to be added such as spies etc. cut scenes when discovering new tech would also be nice as well.

bskrakes #87 Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:20 AM

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I like the direction this game is headed and see some great feedback.

 

I am not a huge fan of Star lanes... Completely agree with galaxy sizing, custom naming, etc. I've up voted a few of the posts which I agree with.

 

I know that this isn't Master of Orion 2 but that is what you the developer are competing with so please, please ensure you take your time and get it right. You are on the right track as the early access has been fun, a few bugs here and there.



Zorrino #88 Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:55 PM

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Don't know if any one suggested this (since the post is rather long) but what about implementing an other galaxy into the map that are connected by a wormhole? Just a thought on how to do a Huge map size. =D They added red star lanes why not a completely different galaxy that you have to unlock to travel to? Think big, Be big, Expand vigorously. Maybe add a bigger max to the amount of players that can be in a game at once to fill up the other galaxy. =D

Alexander_Picoli #89 Posted 10 March 2016 - 10:25 PM

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I don't know why some people hate starlanes so much... I think it add so much strategic value! You can block a starlane during peacetime with a frigate... There are systems with 4 or 5 starlanes that become strategic staging systems... On the other side there are those calm systems that are simply in the way of further movement... And there is those surprise starlanes, that connect two distant systems, that are a big surprise box...

 

There is a whole research thread with fusion drives, antimatter drives, and even the Augmented engines that affect travel speed... And you can research a lot of the universe from the start, merely by keep sending your scouts ahead (until you find a neutral frigate blocking the way)...

 

The frontiers get much more fluid in this way, as well... If we go back to MOO1 / 2 models, all we have is a flat universe.  With starlanes we get almost a third dimension into the game...

 

That said, I really think that the problem is that the movement in system is too over-evaluated. To take a whole turn to move from one starlane to another, not mattering if we have antimatter drivers and two augmented engines is sort of ridiculous... It should cost, say, 1/2 movement point to move from one point to another inside the same system, and 1/3 movement point to move between starlanes. This would make movement to go faster...

 

On the other hand, It makes sense to me that fleets should have "fuel", to limit their operational range: combat, movement and repair uses fuel. If fuel drops, the ship can't guard a starlane no more. ships inside an owned system with a starbase or military outpost get refueled automatically. And then the different drives would increase fuel storage (or consumption)... This means that you can't place a frigate blocking a wormhole on a distant system forever. You risk even losing the fleet...

 

This can cause more micromanagement, and this is bad. But this can be averted by using the idea of making scripts to implement behaviors such as refueling... as I've suggested at this thread http://forum.mastero...dpost__p__12423 .


Edited by Alexander_Picoli, 10 March 2016 - 10:27 PM.


Haihane #90 Posted 11 March 2016 - 02:29 AM

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Pro:

  • Pretty. I love that you can see the planets and not just the star. 
  • The tooltip data is simplistic but it's nice to not have to click on a planet to examine it.
  • Getting around, even with max tech, still takes awhile, which provides for some interesting strategic deployment choices.

 

Con:

  •     Awkward. Zooming is wonky, iso perspective + zooming makes it hard to get the happy medium between enough information and too much. Assume people will be playing massive games before you build the UI, I'm happy for people to play their 1 hour games with 10 systems, but the UI being designed *exclusively* for that is icky--most MoO games are massive, epic single player games.

 

Suggestions:

  • Fix zooming by making it customizable.
  • Instead of starlanes OR no starlanes, I prefer a mixture like MoO2. (Having a wormhole should be special, or at least interesting.)
  • Be a bit clearer about empire borders so we have an idea of how the AI sees them. It's annoying to not know where these interstellar polities think their territory is.'
  • Bigger systems, more variety. MoO3 did this very well, for all its other flaws.


TheEvilCankles #91 Posted 13 March 2016 - 07:46 PM

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After playing a few games, I've noticed that there are the occasional times when a planet on the outermost obit of a solar system is extremely close to a jump point. This creates an interface problem. if you have a fleet at the planet the fleet icon overlaps the jump point and a fleet and/or base that may be at the point. It's difficult to click on the overlapping icons. Sometimes I've had to resort to the fleet menu to select the right ships. Perhaps limiting how close the outermost planet can get to the outer edge of the system would clear this up.

 

I've played one game where the two ends of a wormhole were generated right next to each other. Gameplay-wise this wasn't a very interesting feature of the galaxy when it occurred.

 

I also agree with the previous posters about the zoom levels. It would be helpful to have more graduations between fully zoomed out, and the next zoom step. The game Supreme Commander implemented this kind of zooming feature well.

 

As far as the space lanes are concerned, though I did grow up on MOO2, I don't find them an unwelcome addition. However, I would suggest you have the opportunity to implement something that I haven't seen in games I've played using a similar travel system: In the galaxies generated, sometimes visually "nearby" systems are not made adjacent with a space lane (though a lane could easily connect the two), thus forcing a player to travel through one or more other star systems to reach said "nearby" system. What if a player could use the space factories to build a system to system jump gate to bridge the missing space lane once the proper technology was researched? This could be a way to speed up travel earlier in the game by creating limited shortcuts before jump gate tech could be reached.

 

Great work so far, I'm enjoying the early access experience for what it is.



Francois424 #92 Posted 13 March 2016 - 09:35 PM

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View PostAndruski, on 09 March 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

I have already posted about zoom levels and also being able to see a system when zoomed all the way out to the galaxy level (possibly via picture-in-picture like Moo2). Naturally there is a ton about star lanes in here, and though I'd prefer to not have them, if we are to be stuck with them, why on earth do we have infinite range? Additionally, I've seen a lot about terraforming and Gaia transformation, and want to throw in that I agree the techs for them comes too early (though they could perhaps subdivide terraforming to upgrading lower tier biomes at early techs and then finally reaching terra/gaia towards the end). I also liked the Moo1 concept of needing tech to colonize the more hazardous biomes. But I feel that this touches on a more core design element than just tech placement:

 

Food isn't interesting.

 

Now I know a LOT of people didn't like having to manage freighter fleets in Moo2, and its implementation was clunky (maybe they should've let you build more than 5 units at a time) but at least it made that ultra-food-producing-with-natives-gaia-planet still amazing long after it had reached its pop cap. That was because that planet would become the bread-basket for the rest of the empire. It would specialize in food production so others could specialize in science and industry. Your empire became interconnected. Your radioactive ultra rich planet needed food, and the ultra poor ocean provided it (and depending on the food situation, you might have actually needed that ultra poor ocean, fought wars over it even).  Even when everyone was well fed, food surplus still served a purpose as it gave bonus $$. Right now food = growth. Some grow faster than others, but when they max out, food = pointless.

 

 

I didn't mind the Freighter fleet of Moo2.  In fact it took me a few games to realize that's what they did.  I LOVED them.

From the main management screen, drag drop colonist from A-B (3 turn ok, Y/N?)... and sending food from one planet to another, got it.  Now I could play the game seriously.  And I did.

 

View PostProvinfistoris, on 09 March 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Gotta say, I just thought about it as reading another thread. I agree that right now planet specials are far too weak. I also think that structures in general are too weak though. What happened to 200+ prod planets that could churn out your biggest ships at the drop of a hat? Since specials are so prevalent they aren't worth fighting over at all.

 

I don't know... I had a "Profungus" system where I used the Export technology to make just that system... 202 production and a Titan ship (with death Rays/Zeon Missiles, and fully decked with specials) in about 6-8 turns.

For this game that's pretty quick.  I build my DoomStar in 13 turns.  It's still possible but it's a Star-System effort as opposed to a single planet (except maybe Orion, but she takes too long to get to that level).

 

The problem I had was getting ships to the front in a decent timeframe... 15 turns before jump-gates, and 8 turns with...  And the latest engine technologies too. It's good that they are looking into getting better early tech jump-gates..


 

Not having to stop in your own system (losing a turn of movement each time) and getting engine tech to go faster (double?) would help.

I'm waiting for next big patch and expecting a lot out of it for these nagging issues.

 



Suraknar #93 Posted 15 March 2016 - 03:22 AM

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I do not like Starlanes...if I knew I would not have bought this..and would have waited it out... there are other 4x Space games with starlanes to play...what has made MOO series distinct is precisely the fact that there are not Starlanes in the originals.

How could they have made a Remake like this? Is that supposed to be innovation?
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*everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

Haihane #94 Posted 15 March 2016 - 07:26 AM

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View PostFrancois424, on 13 March 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

 

I didn't mind the Freighter fleet of Moo2.  In fact it took me a few games to realize that's what they did.  I LOVED them.

From the main management screen, drag drop colonist from A-B (3 turn ok, Y/N?)... and sending food from one planet to another, got it.  Now I could play the game seriously.  And I did.

 

 

I don't know... I had a "Profungus" system where I used the Export technology to make just that system... 202 production and a Titan ship (with death Rays/Zeon Missiles, and fully decked with specials) in about 6-8 turns.

For this game that's pretty quick.  I build my DoomStar in 13 turns.  It's still possible but it's a Star-System effort as opposed to a single planet (except maybe Orion, but she takes too long to get to that level).

 

The problem I had was getting ships to the front in a decent timeframe... 15 turns before jump-gates, and 8 turns with...  And the latest engine technologies too. It's good that they are looking into getting better early tech jump-gates..


 

Not having to stop in your own system (losing a turn of movement each time) and getting engine tech to go faster (double?) would help.

I'm waiting for next big patch and expecting a lot out of it for these nagging issues.

 

I don't even need to use my industrial worlds. I can outright buy a doom star every ~1.8 turns, so they all stay on 'trade goods' and research so they don't get polluted. Can crank out titans extremely quickly also, obviously.



Provinfistoris #95 Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:00 PM

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View PostFrancois424, on 13 March 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

 

I didn't mind the Freighter fleet of Moo2.  In fact it took me a few games to realize that's what they did.  I LOVED them.

From the main management screen, drag drop colonist from A-B (3 turn ok, Y/N?)... and sending food from one planet to another, got it.  Now I could play the game seriously.  And I did.

 

 

I don't know... I had a "Profungus" system where I used the Export technology to make just that system... 202 production and a Titan ship (with death Rays/Zeon Missiles, and fully decked with specials) in about 6-8 turns.

For this game that's pretty quick.  I build my DoomStar in 13 turns.  It's still possible but it's a Star-System effort as opposed to a single planet (except maybe Orion, but she takes too long to get to that level).

 

The problem I had was getting ships to the front in a decent timeframe... 15 turns before jump-gates, and 8 turns with...  And the latest engine technologies too. It's good that they are looking into getting better early tech jump-gates..


 

Not having to stop in your own system (losing a turn of movement each time) and getting engine tech to go faster (double?) would help.

I'm waiting for next big patch and expecting a lot out of it for these nagging issues.

 

 

Yeah exactly. Food in this game serves no purpose. Once you max pop, citizens are free to be repurposed towards production or research. You don't even need food to maintain population. That's bollocks.

 

Also, in MoO 2 the production levels were great, I mean churning out a titan a turn, or a doom star in 2 turns was amazing. Now you can use the power of money to get around the fact that production levels just aren't up to snuff.

 

Not to say you couldn't do the same in MoO 2. I mean with the gnolams, you could make so much money, that you could just outright buy planets up to max.



phosphoros667 #96 Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:55 PM

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Suggestion: Make the Galaxy 3D so that you can rotate around.

Fandangle #97 Posted 16 March 2016 - 05:30 AM

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Galaxies have on the order of 100+ billion stars and its unrealistic to play the game on that scale. Instead why not focus on a section of a spiral arm! Be creative but please don't try to suggest a galaxy is that small or that life can exist so close to a galaxies core of which the radiation makes not possible. 

spades_sniper #98 Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:02 PM

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Flagged planet.  This should be easy and would save tonnes of wasted time.  Add a check-box on the planet view even for newly discovered planets to flag the planet.  Also in game setup add a setup for a default "when to automatically flag a planet that "can be changed during runtime.

SSN Dude

Fandangle #99 Posted 18 March 2016 - 06:10 AM

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Please allow a 'Fog Of War' option to limit both AI and player knowledge for example of player strengths simply by viewing victory conditions or knowing an individual fleets strength precisely without having ever engaged them in battle. Such observations should be estimated based on historical encounters or spy activity.

Fandangle #100 Posted 18 March 2016 - 06:19 AM

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Its crazy to allow a fleet to go anywhere on the map from the start of the game. In MOO 2 fleets had a limited range from occupied planets. Takes the mystery out of the game when Orion is found so early. In fact everyone is found early in the game in circle galaxy and just a little longer in the spiral galaxy. 




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