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Combat is the Core for MOO Universe 4x Strategy

Tactical combat 4x Strategy poll

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Poll: Tactical or Strategic Part is more important for MOO Universe (69 members have cast votes)

Tactical (Battles) or Strategic (4x) Part is more important in MOO Universe for you (sorry guys, no choice for 4x and Tactical by design)

  1. Strategic 4x part (Diplomacy, Economics, Colony Management and Research, Race traits) (28 votes [40.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.58%

  2. Tactical combat (Battles, Ship Designer, Asymmetric perks) (41 votes [59.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.42%

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JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #21 Posted 08 March 2016 - 04:24 PM

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View PostVahouth, on 08 March 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

It depends on the game. ;)

See for example the Battlefleet Gothic preview. It is clearly more combat oriented than MoO.

 

 

Well... I call THAT IS the Tactical for MOO (or atleast half of it), but not the one we've seen so far. AND as soon as MOO games are still 4x Strategy perhaps TBS would have been a better choice. But we have RTS already. I hope that we won't finish with bad RTS (because it's not a Tactical game) and no TBS (because RTS "is popular" =).


Edited by JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, 08 March 2016 - 04:31 PM.

"Nice pictures, nice UI, balance and a good AI" © "This is no mine, it's a tomb!"

Poll from Zorg : Combat is the Core for MOO Universe 4x Strategy

Poll from Zorg : No LOOT in MOO/CtS


Azmodanrom #22 Posted 08 March 2016 - 08:28 PM

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good topic.

i was thinking along the same lines. but i arrived at a different conclusion: the 4X strategy is not deep enough in MOO games because there is not enough diversity in the map. There are only stars (with planets) and a small number of them. In the strategic "plane" they all have the same function - let;s say cities in Civ5.

same thing with combat units - in MOO we have only ships that are ranged dps class. no mix to really spice things up.

 

so in the end, MOO games need something more to keep you playing that just the 4X strategy. deep tactical combat and detailed ship design did it for MOO2. not so much for this MOO4.


Remember Tukayyid!


JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #23 Posted 09 March 2016 - 09:13 AM

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View Post_Koneko_, on 08 March 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

 

The main driver of moo2 is the customization of your race.   This allowed you to play a hybrid race that had different positives and negatives than the main races.   In terms of human vs human player games you could limit what race picks no one could play with.   What most (99% of people) did not know is that moo2 was incomplete and because it didn't have expansions lacked a true rounded out game....there were flaws that never got fixed by the company.

 

You are absolutely right. Besides, there were a lot of issues about Tactical part, but it never was finished. If they did... He-he... If they did perhaps the whole genre of 4x games was different by now.

 


"Nice pictures, nice UI, balance and a good AI" © "This is no mine, it's a tomb!"

Poll from Zorg : Combat is the Core for MOO Universe 4x Strategy

Poll from Zorg : No LOOT in MOO/CtS


m007kuzya #24 Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:36 AM

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i vote on Tactical combat, because it is so many 4x-space strategy since last 20 years... And NO ONE have good Tactical Combat. Only MoO2 has good Tactical, and i hope new MoO make deep and hard tactical too.

Vahouth #25 Posted 11 March 2016 - 11:54 AM

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View PostJeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, on 08 March 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

 

Well... I call THAT IS the Tactical for MOO (or atleast half of it), but not the one we've seen so far. AND as soon as MOO games are still 4x Strategy perhaps TBS would have been a better choice. But we have RTS already. I hope that we won't finish with bad RTS (because it's not a Tactical game) and no TBS (because RTS "is popular" =).

 

OMG Zorg, BFG Armada is out! I'm gonna try the beta today! :D

Time to be the warrior. ;)



JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #26 Posted 11 March 2016 - 02:28 PM

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View PostVahouth, on 11 March 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

 

OMG Zorg, BFG Armada is out! I'm gonna try the beta today! 

Time to be the warrior. 

 

I hope that New MOO devs will understand sooner or later that animal instincts and "taste of blood" is the key to success (not all that 4x Mambo-Jambo). 4x Strategy is the dress and Tactical is the flesh of that game... He-he...


Edited by JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, 11 March 2016 - 02:31 PM.

"Nice pictures, nice UI, balance and a good AI" © "This is no mine, it's a tomb!"

Poll from Zorg : Combat is the Core for MOO Universe 4x Strategy

Poll from Zorg : No LOOT in MOO/CtS


HsojVvad #27 Posted 11 March 2016 - 11:35 PM

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I didn't vote. I say both is important, there is no one or the other.

voidstalker_woe #28 Posted 11 March 2016 - 11:46 PM

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View PostJeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, on 06 March 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

What is the main driver (pillar) for the MOO Universe games ?

 

It's clear that too little people will play only the Pure Tactical Combat or Pure 4x Strategy in the MOO Universe. But Imo all the 4x Strategy part is a prelude of a good-big-choke Tactical fight (with friends or against the AI). Atleast MOO1 was, Imo. Perhaps it is the lost spirit and The Curse of The Orion's Master.

 

I am a total slave to boarding ships in combat, and so of course the tactical part of the game is why I still have it installed and a current game.  For others it may be about different aspects of the game, and they may enjoy "different strokes for different folks", but for me it is all about the combat.  IMO, a really good game should all all players to enjoy what they like best.

 

You know, like MOO2 did!


Further more, I believe that we must start building a better MoO5 now, for only by doing so can we get tomorrow's game, today!

Aquasarrious #29 Posted 12 March 2016 - 01:36 PM

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To me, it's clearly the tactical combat. The rest has been done in a lot of clones or newer games like the Galactic Civilizations series. But tactical combat is the main reason i still play Moo2 to this day. It hasn't been done in a good way since Moo2. It's so satisfying to beat enemies that have better techs because you have designed your ships with a particular strategy in mind...
It allows a lot more options...and tough choices !

Mikko_M #30 Posted 18 March 2016 - 07:49 PM

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View PostAquasarrious, on 12 March 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

To me, it's clearly the tactical combat. The rest has been done in a lot of clones or newer games like the Galactic Civilizations series. But tactical combat is the main reason i still play Moo2 to this day. It hasn't been done in a good way since Moo2. It's so satisfying to beat enemies that have better techs because you have designed your ships with a particular strategy in mind...
It allows a lot more options...and tough choices !

 

Amen to that. :) 

Moreover, I advise that the tactical combat must be made more player controllable and informative for this to become a proper MOO game.

 

​The long lost formula for space 4X game success = Good tactical combat + good empire management > than just good tactical combat or good empire management alone.


Munashiimaru #31 Posted 18 March 2016 - 09:39 PM

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They're equally important to me.  I've played lots of games that nail one or the other, but not both and all they ever do is make me want to play MoO2 again.

fourteenfour #32 Posted 09 May 2016 - 08:04 PM

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The core of any 4x is the strategy part of the game. The tactical is icing on an otherwise hopefully good cake.
Wargaming Labs, taking the money and running. Abandons MOO CTS after their contract development staff could not deliver without ever one word to players.

LeadfootSlim #33 Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:35 PM

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While I have to echo the sentiment about both parts being important, I believe tactical combat is currently underdeveloped. Some of this can be attributed to bugs and incomplete features that need fixing, but the better part of it rests with the AI.

 

Even with imperfect tactical combat, the systems we currently have would stand out if they were used more fully. As of EA3, I have never had the AI attack my homeworld, or try to erase me from the galaxy as I have done to them. Is this because the AI starts the game with a win condition directive for Econ, Tech, or Diplomacy and never strays from it? Or because it's EA3 and it still needs to know how players behave in order to counter them? Either way, if the AI doesn't play to win, and if their progress towards victory isn't clearly communicated to the player, then neither the Strategic or Tactical elements will really shine.

 

That all being said, I have fond memories of MOO2, and the tactical combat was what made the climactic final battle count. Pressing "auto-resolve" when you've got two Doom Stars and their accompanying fleets duking it out over a homeworld is an insulting anticlimax. Even if you're playing defensively to gun for a Tech/Econ/Diplo win condition, good combat is necessary to make this game shine above its pale, spreadsheet-in-space competition.



Master_Seven #34 Posted 10 May 2016 - 01:23 AM

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Let's be honest here.  Why spend time building up colonies, resources, and tech....... because you want to build awesome Fleets to project power in the Universe.   MOO2 had it, why doesn't this game have it... ?

 

 

I really feel let down.  The ship design and build-out is so basic it hurts.   No comparison to MOO2 at all.   All of us back in the 90s wanted to simulate space warfare with large fleets of self-designed ships and MOO2 gave us that.  It is why it is the 4X standard. 


 

We need Tactical Turn-Based combat with lots of ship design choices and load-outs back.   Please!!!!!!



voidstalker_woe #35 Posted 11 May 2016 - 12:58 AM

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View PostMaster_Seven, on 09 May 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

Let's be honest here.  Why spend time building up colonies, resources, and tech....... because you want to build awesome Fleets to project power in the Universe.   MOO2 had it, why doesn't this game have it... ?

 

 

I really feel let down.  The ship design and build-out is so basic it hurts.   No comparison to MOO2 at all.   All of us back in the 90s wanted to simulate space warfare with large fleets of self-designed ships and MOO2 gave us that.  It is why it is the 4X standard.


 

We need Tactical Turn-Based combat with lots of ship design choices and load-outs back.   Please!!!!!!

 

Yes to this!

 

And also;http://forum.masteroforion.com/index.php?/topic/1486-a-call-for-moo5-pre-production-discussion-forum-creation/#topmost

 

 


Edited by voidstalker_woe, 11 May 2016 - 01:05 AM.

Further more, I believe that we must start building a better MoO5 now, for only by doing so can we get tomorrow's game, today!

Ceadeed #36 Posted 11 May 2016 - 04:47 PM

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Process of elimination:
The MoO series is a series of 4x games.  Eliminate the turn based "tactical" combat and you still have a 4x game. Seen in every other 4x game.
Eliminate the 4x aspects and you no longer have a 4x game.  You have a tactical ship combat game, not an empire builder.

A fair number of people are disappointed because the combat isn't turn based and they aren't good at real time tactics, but MoO is a 4x game first and a ship combat simulator second.  The game would be especially great if the combat were compelling as well, but that's by no means the core of the game.

Pherdnut #37 Posted 12 May 2016 - 12:40 AM

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Is everybody posting in May playing the latest version? It doesn't autopatch. You have to reinstall. Tactical and ship design have improved considerably IMO. Still not sure why beams and cannons though. Kinda feels like beam should be what you get when you select continuous. Also they should probably rename the orbital "ground batteries."

LeadfootSlim #38 Posted 12 May 2016 - 03:39 AM

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View PostPherdnut, on 12 May 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

Is everybody posting in May playing the latest version? It doesn't autopatch. You have to reinstall. Tactical and ship design have improved considerably IMO. Still not sure why beams and cannons though. Kinda feels like beam should be what you get when you select continuous. Also they should probably rename the orbital "ground batteries."

 

I'm pretty sure we're all on EA3, unless some uncommunicated test release build was snuck under the radar without our knowledge.

Mikko_M #39 Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:46 AM

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View PostCeadeed, on 11 May 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

Process of elimination:
The MoO series is a series of 4x games. Eliminate the turn based "tactical" combat and you still have a 4x game. Seen in every other 4x game.
Eliminate the 4x aspects and you no longer have a 4x game. You have a tactical ship combat game, not an empire builder.

A fair number of people are disappointed because the combat isn't turn based and they aren't good at real time tactics, but MoO is a 4x game first and a ship combat simulator second. The game would be especially great if the combat were compelling as well, but that's by no means the core of the game.

 

Eliminate the tactical combat and you eliminate MOO from the game. And as I have heard it there really isn`t much to be good at currently in combat. (Mostly just AI doing stuff in a confusing manner.)

Edited by Mikko_M, 12 May 2016 - 11:11 AM.

Moreover, I advise that the tactical combat must be made more player controllable and informative for this to become a proper MOO game.

 

​The long lost formula for space 4X game success = Good tactical combat + good empire management > than just good tactical combat or good empire management alone.


Ceadeed #40 Posted 12 May 2016 - 01:36 PM

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View PostMikko_M, on 12 May 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

Eliminate the tactical combat and you eliminate MOO from the game. And as I have heard it there really isn`t much to be good at currently in combat. (Mostly just AI doing stuff in a confusing manner.)

 

Emotional pandering.  MoO is not defined by turn based combat.  MoO4 is not even the first MoO to not use turn based combat, it's current model is tactical combat, but real time tactical combat rather than turn based.





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