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Response to Feedback: Upcoming Changes to Master of Orion


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Zenicetus #21 Posted 12 March 2016 - 03:58 AM

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View PostLucian667, on 12 March 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

 

This is one of the few things that might make me change my mind and actually consider purchasing the release version of the game. However please dont go the MOO 3 route and make Off-road travel so slow that it is utterly useless. I understand that it must be slower, but you must make sure that it is a viable ALTERNATIVE, not a useless feature that nobody with a brain would ever use.

 

Also making it available in the early game rather than the mid game would make this game about 100 times more attractive.

 

Let's not forget, with all the enthusiasm for free travel, that we don't just want this as a player strategy. The AI needs to handle it too. If the AI is a strong and interesting opponent with this system, then I'm all for it. I don't care about any specific travel method as an abstract design. I just want an interesting group of AI's to fight against, to ally with, and to manipulate in a 4x game.

 

The AI quality is everything. That's the make-or-break for a game like this.

 

 



Lucian667 #22 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:01 AM

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View PostZenicetus, on 12 March 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

Let's not forget, with all the enthusiasm for free travel, that we don't just want this as a player strategy. The AI needs to handle it too. If the AI is a strong and interesting opponent with this system, then I'm all for it. I don't care about any specific travel method as an abstract design. I just want an interesting group of AI's to fight against, to ally with, and to manipulate in a 4x game.

 

The AI quality is everything. That's the make-or-break for a game like this.

 

Totally agree with this, if the AI cant use it then the change is worse than pointless.

GeneralDirection #23 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:01 AM

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View PostZenicetus, on 11 March 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

 

 

The AI quality is everything. That's the make-or-break for a game like this.

 

 

 

This is exactly why we have to be very careful with drastic changes. Until the AI is up to snuff, you never know how a change will impact the overall flow of the game. It's why I made sure to stress that if we were to clearly prioritize the list, AI and general balance would be at the top.



Lucian667 #24 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:05 AM

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View PostGeneralDirection, on 12 March 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

Yeah that's the idea. It would honestly be pointless to spend development time on it if it were useless, so I can't imagine we'd do that.

 

Well to any reasonable person its a no-brainer. But in MOO 3, off-road travel was so slow that it was completely useless and players were probably wondering what the hell the devs were thinking when they included it. I just dont want to see a repeat of that.

GeneralDirection #25 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:07 AM

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View PostLucian667, on 11 March 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

 

Well to any reasonable person its a no brainer. But in MOO 3 off-road travel was so slow that it was completely useless and players were probably wondering what the hell the devs were thinking when they included it. Just dont want to see a repeat of that.

 

Believe me, I don't think anyone does. ;)

Omega_Weapon #26 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:11 AM

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View PostLucian667, on 11 March 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

 

This is one of the few things that might make me change my mind and actually consider purchasing the release version of the game. However please dont go the MOO 3 route and make Off-road travel so slow that it is utterly useless. I understand that it must be slower, but you must make sure that it is a viable ALTERNATIVE, not a useless feature that nobody with a brain would ever use.

 

Also making it available in the early game rather than the mid game would make this game about 100 times more attractive.

 

The big thing for me is that the mechanic for free movement is being put into the game. Once that groundwork is done it opens up real possibilities regarding Expansion DLC or modding with early free movement in the future.

Edited by Omega_Weapon, 12 March 2016 - 04:14 AM.


NinjaLA #27 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:21 AM

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the one *game changer* I can think of implementing that I am very hopeful we will see in game is limited missiles on ships..   it's pretty game breaking right now how useless beam weapons are because you can just sit at range and pop off with missiles when you custom design a ship..   I've been keeping myself from doing this just to keep the AI competitive (a little anyhow) and I shouldn't really have dumb myself down to give the AI a shot. 

 

 

that said... this list is brilliant.   you guys really are going to huge lengths to prove you care about the IP .    I can't wait for this 



OrionSol #28 Posted 12 March 2016 - 05:38 AM

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"We are experimenting with a slow / limited navigation option outside of starlanes, unlocked via mid-game technology"

 

100000% yes! 

 

Nice job listening to the players! 


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Demandred848 #29 Posted 12 March 2016 - 06:00 AM

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That is a long list of very good news!

JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #30 Posted 12 March 2016 - 08:32 AM

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It's all sounds good. There is still an issue with fonts sizes and fonts appearance. Is there a unique font for Master of Orion game only ? And font sizes in research tree, ship design screen... it's too small.


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Moofeus #31 Posted 12 March 2016 - 09:40 AM

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AI and Diplomacy really needs some major help.  For now I'm going to set this one aside until it actually improves.



JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg #32 Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:47 AM

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Enemy ship capture ? Area effect weapons ? Ion Stream Projector ? Percentage effect weapons ? TRACTOR BEAM ??? Where are all of my favourite toys ?

Edited by JeanBaptisteEmanuelZorg, 12 March 2016 - 10:53 AM.

"Nice pictures, nice UI, balance and a good AI" © "This is no mine, it's a tomb!"

Poll from Zorg : Combat is the Core for MOO Universe 4x Strategy

Poll from Zorg : No LOOT in MOO/CtS


Jakajan #33 Posted 12 March 2016 - 11:27 AM

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Nice, glad to hear we are being listened to!

 

Any chance you could make it more clear as to how many troop transports are buildable per world? Also maybe have a production option to spend planetary production to build marines so transports could be built faster if needed?

 

Also maybe showing a simple battle animation like marine or battle suit units of men marching over a planet and firing laser bolts back and forth at the the other marines on world? would be cool. Does not have to be detailed, just some added sprites to the screen during combat. 



Aquasarrious #34 Posted 12 March 2016 - 01:43 PM

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Quote

We are experimenting with a slow / limited navigation option outside of starlanes, unlocked via mid-game technology

Remove the technology part. Put it in right away. Starlanes should be a bonus to speed, not the other way around. If you choose not to use them, you'll be slower but you can go anywhere.
Having such limiting factors in the game hinders the strategy part of it. When an enemy can only attack you from one or 2 ways, it's much easier to defend. Take some clues from master of orion 2. In multiplayer, stealth ships could attack you in any star system and you wouldn't know until it happened, even if you had warp interdictors...
Removing the ability to do such things seriously limits what's possible in your game and, clearly, in a strategy game, it's not a good thing.



ReallyDeepMan #35 Posted 12 March 2016 - 02:33 PM

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View PostGeneralDirection, on 12 March 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

This was already coming so I didn't really think to put it in there. We're just wanting to get "Average" right and then we can tweak up/down in difficulty from there.

 

My concern there is that without having the ability to adjust the difficulty you may discourage some folks from playing and getting you good testing/feedback.

 

A new player might give up since they don't have an easier setting to start on.

 

A more experienced player might give up because the game has become trivially easy.



JosEPh_II #36 Posted 12 March 2016 - 02:33 PM

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Great list and Thanks for listening. :)

 

On the Off road travel, it sounds Great, but I have a suggestion: How about at game Set Up Option/Advanced you could have a selection choice of 3 different Off road speeds? 40% speed of star lanes (SLs), 60% SL and 85-90% SLs. This would appease many that want Off road but would also give those that like SLs a bit of control over offroad usage. Again the AI Must know how to use all these Options And have the ability to use the Option that might fit their Racial Characteristics best.

 

Off road actually should be the 1st method available at game start and just a few Techs into the Tech Tree. SL Tech would open up SL travel and reveal the warp points for a star.  So if you had selected 40% OR at game setup when you Unlock SL travel you have a faster means of travel that may or may not  be a more direct line than OR. And of course if you selected 60% or the 85-90% these all give Options and strategic value. Hope I'm making myself clear. Choice is Always Good.

 

And finally a Shout Out to Bionic Dance, That was a great post! Lots of good questions that have real discussion potential. Keep it up! :D

 

JosEPh


Edited by JosEPh_II, 12 March 2016 - 02:40 PM.

Old and Slow.....Watch Out! It's Not Y'uns Turn!

BionicDance #37 Posted 12 March 2016 - 02:36 PM

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View PostJosEPh_II, on 12 March 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

 

 

And finally a Shout Out to Bionic Dance, That was a great post! Lots of good questions that have real discussion potential. Keep it up! :D

 

 

 

*blush* D'aww, shucks...t'wernt nuffin'. :)



Niklas_Westning #38 Posted 12 March 2016 - 07:37 PM

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I really liked what i read here today. Feels like you guys are really taking the feedback serious :) The thoughts about expanding buildings to different lvls are a very interesting thing, hope you go all the way with that. Also that you want to expand the tech tree with more technologies, shields, weapons systems and so on is a great idea. I'm also looking forward to see what you will be doing with the pirates and how much they will be a threat.

One thing i still would like to see is greater controll of ground combat, either if we controll the battle itself in a turn based battle where we can customize our troops weapons,armour and the troops will get experience. 
When it comes to colonization i would like to see the return of colony bases. They should work as a quicker way of getting planets in your starsystem like it has been in the past. Larger galaxies and more opponents would be awsome too. 
Finally i must say i have no doubts that you guys will improve this awsome game and come with even more great uppdates! :)

 


 


Edited by Niklas_Westning, 12 March 2016 - 07:50 PM.


ZePwnage #39 Posted 12 March 2016 - 07:48 PM

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"A user-defined chess clock-style turn timer will be added for multiplayer" Gooooood.  You may want to add time for each battle (limited time or defense wins automatically).  This would be one thing that would need to be tested for significantly long periods of time to really nail down.  You may also want to invite some Civ V multiplayer dudes to try the game out in maybe 2 months to see what they do.  Fly them out to your headquarters, dump them on a LAN for a weekend and see what happens.  I expect quick expansions and very high aggression.  I see a lot of players streaming, and there is very little aggression.  That is likely not what we'll see with 6 players who really know their stuff.  I would expect minimal domestic research and 80% military, until they see that everyone else is on par with their fleets.  

"Miniaturization will be introduced; all hail making things smaller!" Niiiiiice.

"We will be changing it so that each tactical battle starts paused by default, allowing you to get a feel for the surroundings and the battlefield to begin planning your tactics" Exceeeellent

"A rally point option will be added for military ships/fleets" RALLY POINTS!!! YEEEEEEES

"Special resources will be better explained" Much needed.  Thank you.

"Shield upgrades will be expanded, and we will introduce additional weapon options for ships" Have you guys been sneaky-beaky watching my stream?!?! lol.

"Civilian ships will be changed to not trigger the threatening fleet notice" I'll take that as a maybe.

"Biomes are not unique enough at the moment, so we are planning to add more variation and also potentially provide new bonuses (i.e. Morale) based on the biome" Good stuff.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop.  :)  

Keep in mind though, mid-game will already have jump-gates.  If the between-star-systems bypass is too slow, the starlanes may end up being faster than the alternative regardless.  Again, not to keep saying the same thing, but the starlanes do not add anything to the strategy.  Instead, they simplify it and make it easier for people to defend (and harder, as it takes longer to get your fleet(s) to the attacked planet.

For example, I attacked a poor guy with a timed rush of 24K fleet strength.  He had 5 turns or less to defend.  If fleet speed is not increased (this rush happened at turn 104, arrived turn 109), then how could he ever meet this threat?  Increasing the speed boosts by 2x from what they are now is, in my opinion, better than having a slower-paced game.  It allows for more blitzy tactics and defenses and counter-attacks.  If it takes 20 turns to get to your opponent's star systems after wiping out their attack fleet, won't they just have another fleet waiting for you???  I would hate for the game to turn into a who-can-camp-and-outtech-the-best.  Civ V balances this fairly well in the highest levels of 6-8 man multiplayer.  1 or 2 people will fall behind normally, and then they will be eliminated by the strongest civs (which will then catapult them into the top positions to maybe win the game).

Edited by ZePwnage, 12 March 2016 - 08:01 PM.

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Kidbrewer #40 Posted 12 March 2016 - 09:12 PM

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View PostAquasarrious, on 12 March 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

Quote

We are experimenting with a slow / limited navigation option outside of starlanes, unlocked via mid-game technology

Remove the technology part. Put it in right away. Starlanes should be a bonus to speed, not the other way around. If you choose not to use them, you'll be slower but you can go anywhere.
Having such limiting factors in the game hinders the strategy part of it. When an enemy can only attack you from one or 2 ways, it's much easier to defend. Take some clues from master of orion 2. In multiplayer, stealth ships could attack you in any star system and you wouldn't know until it happened, even if you had warp interdictors...
Removing the ability to do such things seriously limits what's possible in your game and, clearly, in a strategy game, it's not a good thing.

 

It's just hard to conceive that star gates will stay relevant with such a system and that warp point will be relevant late game too. I think it could stay technological and make it like tier 2-3 so it'S reasonably early. Maybe a race starting with a tier 3 tech allowing it to travel deep space right away or a racial trait making it faster than others in deep space travels?

 

A lot of good news!


Edited by Kidbrewer, 12 March 2016 - 09:12 PM.





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